Faery Tale: Hansel and Gretel (horror genre)

Randall_Oelerich

Randall_Oelerich

Veteran
Okay laugh your arse off if you want, a freebie on me. But I am wondering if anybody wants to take a look at a classic faery tale Hansel and Gretel for analyzing horror story structure. If so, see the attached faery tale in PDF format (or at this website). If not, just ignore this post.

In the book Genre Screenwriting, Stephen Duncan uses Hansel and Gretel as a template for analysis of horror story/screenplay elements. As simple as the tale is, I thought it could provide some interesting discussion, maybe not much, but some. Especially for a question I am always haunted with, that of the story goal, plot structure for horror compared to other genre. (yeah i know they are supposed to be the same, but they seem different a bit).

What can be learned from h&g for writing horror? Who is the protagonist, and what is classic about the protagonist as is typically found in horror? What is the premise? What is the protagonist's outer goal, the central question? Why do we like the protagonist(s)? What is their inner goal/need? What is the theme? What do we like (virtue) about the villain/monster? What is the hero/heroine's flaw or vice?

I am actually looking for help from other writers here in understanding this faery tale. Because my current horror screenplay I am writing actually parallels what I see in H&G to a large extent, in terms of structure, plot points. And I want to understand why that is, because my story seems to have the elements and structure of H&G, including turning points, but my story and H&G seem to vary from the typical Syd Field plot structure-- and I want to understand if that is okay, or if this is the nature of horror stories, etc.
~randall
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Here's my 3 cents:

Most protagonist goals in horror are to survive/live. This is a universal theme that everyone can relate to. Run, or be eaten. Dinosaurs, cannibals, zombies, etc. are simply to be killed while trying to live and escape death. These are morality stories because the basic moral message is about the value of one's own life. The message is: It is immoral to die at the hands of monsters and parasites. The lesson teaches us to fight evil and live. These morality stories are allegories for the monsters in our society: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Idi Amen, Pol Pot, etc., and the many who sympathize and act as apologist for these monsters. This also includes the culture of monsters we commonly call "terrorist" who seek Death and Subjugation (a living form of death).

In H&G survival is their goal. They must survive their stepmother who wants to cast them out because of a food shortage. Then they must escape and survive the witch that wants to keep them and eat them. There's something going on about women, food, hunger and children!

The stepmother & witch are connected in some way. Both are evil.

The father is weak. He represents the compromised part of our world. Those who are too morally weak to stand up to evil. The father is not only a victim, but these types are the ones who enable the monsters to rise up. In a way the father represents the greatest of all threats to the children. His weakness is also a lesson on not what to be.

Both H&G represent the good and are the heroes. Hansel is the hero in the first half and Gretel is in the 2nd half.
__________________
 
Nice job, some deep stuff there. Here's my additional 2 cents, we might have a nickel of thoughts with our two brains working at full capacity, LOL.

Logline's are supposed to have a clear visible goal for the protagonist, and this is where it gets confusing to me. The inciting incident seems to be to survive the stepmother wanting to make H and G dinner for the forest beasts (I suppose the witch could be included as a forest beast). But then at a ~50% mark into the story an almost different or more specific survival goal takes hold for H&G-- survive the witch wanting to make dinner out of them, which we see visibly as a climax scene where Gretel kills the witch. They return home and live happily ever after (resolution).

I could see Hansel being a co-protagonist, but also a mentor figure of a sort, being wise with the stones and bread crumb trails. As the author of the book Genre Writing points out-- heroes of horror stories are often female (Scream, Terminator, etc) , because the female represents the continuation of the human species. Gretel interestingly enough kills the witch, not Hansel.

Now as to how H+G might help me and others. It is typical Syd Field et al story structure with a clear visible goal for the protag at the 25% mark. But here in H/G I see a goal at the early onset of surviving abandonment in the woods-- and maybe that is just it, with the witch being the ultimate obstacle to that goal. Or could the encounter with the witch, surviving the witch, be the real goal, but then that is not made clear until midpoint. Okay just writing this out is helping me-- I think what I just said makes sense (am I right?)-- that the classic story goal of H+G is to survive abandonment in the woods, the obstacles being the forest dangers, the ultimate (climax) forest danger (obstacle to survival) being the witch? The inciting incident (stepmother villain wants the kids dead) in a story gets the story going, throws the protagonist's life off kilter, and is related to the greater goal (survive the dangers of the forest world, the ultimate climax danger being the witch). Am I on track?

This all relates to my horror story I am writing because my ultimate protag's goal is to rescue someone dear to her taken by a monster/villain. But the abduction and necessary recovery mission does not happen until the midpoint. Before then, the protag and a group of strangers must survive being hunted and attacked by a monster/villain while isolated at a remote location (classic horror)-- which gets underway at roughly 25%. So, I have my logline for a high concept set up as the group surviving being hunted by the monster while isolated at the location story world. Is that okay? The abduction and rescue mission really takes my story to a much higher level with greater stakes and danger, in the same story world, but I suppose I should look at that in my story as similar to Hansel and Gretel and the abduction by the witch?

As I think of my story, it strikes me writing this that there is a similar plotline and turning point structure for Hansel and Gretel, my story, and the classic horror Creature from the Black Lagoon. A standard goal early on of surviving dangers, then later on an escalation of those dangers by an abduction of a key character requiring rescue and defeat of the creature. All three stories have a main protag, a group, venturing into a dangerous world, a goal of surviving the dangerous world including a creature(s), and then an escalation involving abduction and rescue and then return to the ordinary world.

My story also has a female protagonist, I tend to go that route, not sure why. And the abducted person is her little niece, bringing in the sympathy/empathy element. I have plenty of religious symbolism and backstory too, classic for many horror stories.

Hope I am not rambling too much, just trying to get clear on the whole premise / logline, story structure turning points issue as it pertains to horror. Any feedback and critique, agreement or disagreement greatly appreciated.
~randall
 
Now for my two cents! Working towards a dime! I think youre both right that a main external goal in many horror movies can be survival, but you could really say that a majority of action movies or war movies etc. could count that as a goal. The best movies work something else into the mix - often times something more internal, and you can find it in H & G as well. Hansel, who is set up as the protagonist to start off, wants to protect Gretel, his sister.

Now is where it gets interesting - with Hansel the one leading, doing most of the actions etc., he brings them to the candy house, which in actuality is a false victory and puts them in it even worse. Here, Hansel is captured and in an ironic twist it is the person he wanted to protect who has to save him - very effective story-wise. Reversals like these (the false victory and the swapping of protagonists) work very well, especially in genres like horror, which often times seem far too paint-by-numbers.

Finally, Randall, if you want to study a great story about a main protag (who happens to be female), a group, venturing into a dangerous world, surviving the world and a creature, and then escalation that involves abduction and rescue, definitely check out Aliens - you may already have, but if not, it is a great example of strong storytelling, constant reversals and effective, story-driven horror (in my opinion of course).

Happy writing!
 
Last edited:
Let's get this up to a quarter, LOL! Nice observations about the reversals in plot and also reversal in protagonist, or at least a reversal in the main protagonist if H+G are co-protagonists.

Okay, so if we were writing a one sentence logline to pitch in a query letter for Hansel and Gretel, a one-liner that tells the reader
1. who the protagonist is (not necessarily by name)
2. what the protagonist's outer/visible goal is to accomplish by the end of the story
3. what the major obstacle is to that goal
-- how would the logline be written?

BTW, in the book Genre Screenwriting the author (Stephen Duncan) creates a modern horror story using Hansel and Gretel as a template that turns out pretty cool. A great way to see how one can take a classic faery tale motif and (legally, since fairy tales are definitely outside of copyright law) play off it to make a modern horror story.
 
Lt_Col_Wade said:
... Finally, Randall, if you want to study a great story about a main protag (who happens to be female), a group, venturing into a dangerous world, surviving the world and a creature, and then escalation that involves abduction and rescue, definitely check out Aliens - you may already have, but if not, it is a great example of strong storytelling, constant reversals and effective, story-driven horror (in my opinion of course).
Click to expand...

Great example, I had forgotten about Aliens. Classic horror where a group with a main female protagonist is thrown into a story world where they are attacked by a monster(s) and must survive to return to the ordinary world, and during the plotline an orphaned little girl is abducted by the Creature requiring the protagonist to go rescue the little girl, bond with her along the way, and defeat the Creature. Wow-- that is EXACTLY the story line I have going for my horror story! Aliens really helps me feel good about my story, thanks so much for reminding me about Aliens and how it relates to my story!!! Bro I owe you a beer! :beer:

EDIT: I just ordered the script for Aliens, plus a few other scripts. Thanks again for the tip Lt Col. I salute you.
~randall
 
Last edited:
This is only worth .5 cent. I'm scrapping the bottom of the bucket.

Remember to add in dilemma. Dilemma is the internal argument that adds tension, conflict and for me it can be the cornerstone of the moral lesson because we watch the hero tormented with the choice. The protagonist must make a choice in which both alternatives are equally bad. Something valued must win & something must lose: e.g, which child of mine should I let the monster eat in order to save the others? It can be a tough choice.

The hero/savior: Often a hero is tough enough to simpy run away and live. There must be something that compels the hero to save someone else and endanger themselve while doing so. Love? Guilt? Responsibility? etc... Often the hero confronts a moral/psychological flaw within and overcomes it. In this way the story is about the physical journey (survival), the moral choices and the personal growth. I think a good horror movie should have this within no matter what flavor of wallpaper hides these internal functions.
 
no problem man, glad to be of help. i think this is a great topic especially as related to the horror genre. as for that beer, im always up for a drink!
 
Most definitely (dilemma). Worth a coin for sure, LOL.

If I recall the movie Aliens correctly, Ripley faced a dilemma of save herself versus gear up and go back to rescue the little girl by going down the elevator shaft into the heart of the creature's lair. Self preservation versus self-sacrifice. That is the same dilemma I have in my story (creepy the common elements I am seeing in my story and Aliens), although it could perhaps be made more powerful for now it will do. 'Self-preservation v. self-sacrifice' may be a common dilemma employed in creature horror stories.

The protagonist's dilemma is what audiences (and the reader) crave and want to see/read in our stories; because as we watch a movie we see our self as that protagonist, and learn to solve and identify with dilemmas the hero faces.
 
Ultimately, to me, it's always about survival.

To use as an example a film that Randy probably abhors... in the 2003 TCM remake (starring Jessica Biel, >$100M box office worldwide, budget $9.5M) the hapless teens just want to go to a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert. Then, they pick up a traumatized girl who quickly blows her head off, they stop at the gas station/meat market to call the Sheriff, and soon after the splattering begins. The goal has changed: to survive.

In Jeepers Creepers, the two siblings just want to go home for the weekend. After nearly being run off the road by a truck-driving maniac, they spot him shoving what appears to be a body down a sewer pipe and decide to investigate. The maniac returns and makes them his next target. A new goal: to survive.

In Wrong Turn, Chris just wants to get to Raleigh in time for an interview... but after slamming into a parked car on an isolated road/"short cut"... and discovering a cabin full of grisly hunting weapons and horrific souvenirs, occupied by a freakish clan of inbreds, his goal changes: to survive.

In The Descent, the group of young women just want to enjoy a weekend of extreme outdoor adventure. But, when they get trapped in an uncharted underground cave system, far below the earth's surface, their goal changes: to find a way out. Later, deeper in the caves, when they discover a race of bat-like blood-thirsy predators, it changes again: to survive.

In Wolf Creek, the three young hikers on holiday in the Australian outback just want to see the famous Wolf Creek crater. But, then their car dies and the seemingly friendly and charitable bushman who comes to their aide turns out to be a serial killer. Their goal has changed: to survive.

I could go on all day.

Horror is, in some ways, less complex than other genres. The middle is often more episodic/meandering, but we accept that for the scares and thrills.


Also,

Don't let the devising of a textbook-solid logline crush your project before it gets started. When things get this technical, it scares me. It's easy to lose sight of the story... and as we all know, STORY IS KING.

Let yours be told.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top