External recorder for double system with SLRs

T

Thomas Church

Active member
Hello guys, I'm a bit of an audio newbie.

I'm planning on getting either of these recorders to go with a 60d.

TASCAM DR-100

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...100_DR_100_Professional_Portable_Digital.html

or the more expensive

TASCAM HD-P2
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404262-REG/Tascam_HD_P2_HD_P2_Portable_Stereo_CF.html

What are the main differences between them? Is there any noticeable audio difference in audio quality or the differences are mostly due to more features?

Both record to two tracks, does this mean two stereo tracks?

How do you sync the audio with 24fps or 30fps video? Is there an option on either of them to record according to framerate?

Can you input Scene, Shot and Take information as you can with the more expensive Sound Devices recorders?

With the DR-100, recording 24 bit audio would be good enough for a feature film?
 
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is there a sound guy using these recorders or are you more of a 1 man band?

if you're taking the 1 man band approach the dr-100 may be better suited since its smaller.

and the recorder are free run time based, so they aren't tied to a frame rate. well, with the hd-p2 it can accept incoming time code. but i don't see you doing that with a dslr.

i've never used either but to my knowledge, no, you can not input scene, shot or take info.

and yes, 24/48 audio is what most sound recordist record to for feature film.

the only issue i see arising with the dr100 is its mic preamps. they aren't as nice as the hd-p2's.
 
The HD-P2 writes to CF cards vs. SD for the DR-100.

The HD-P2 accepts time code, the DR-100 does not.

The HD-P2 has SPDIF I/O, the DR-100 does not.

The HD-P2 is more bag friendly, the DR-100 not so much.

Since you're shooting DSLR, you can't take advantage of time code, so your only sync option is to slate, and with slating, framerate doesn't matter.

The DR-100 uses a sequencial file naming system. The HD-P2 allows for Project, scene, take naming conventions.

Unless you're using mics with a lot of gain, I'd strongly suggest placing a mixer in front of these recorders. Specifically the DR-100, when using most shotguns (other than the ME-66), your gain will be maxed out to get a decent level.

I have been using the DR-100 for the last 9 months with a PSC Alphamix in front of it. I have just recently replaced the DR-100 with the Tascam 680 to gain iso tracks.
 
Frame rates and sound have nothing really to do with each other, 'Film" and "video" run at different speeds so i your shooting film and transferring to video the SPEED will change and you would have to alter the speed of the sound to match.

But you are shooting at the same "speed" as your ending up at so your good.
 
depends what you do , but i would spend less on the recorder and take a zoom H1 , and put the money on a wireless mic (or 2)
what makes the quality of the sound is not the recorder or the mic, it is the location of the mic.
wth a wireless mic there is no excuse not to have it at the right place.
 
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nosys70 said:
depends what you do , but i would spend less on the recorder and take a zoom H1 , and put the money on a wireless mic (or 2)
what makes the quality of the sound is not the recorder or the mic, it is the location of the mic.
wth a wireless mic there is no excuse not to have it at the right place.
Click to expand...

This isn't great advice. Of course the location of the mic is super important but guess what? That's something that can be fixed for free. (getting someone who knows how to put it in the right spot)
The OP mentioned a feature length film, so I hope he doesn't have more than 1 (or 2) people speaking in a scene if he would use your advice of buying a wireless lav system.

Also, even on the best of days a lav is never going to sound as good as a well positioned boom so your compromising the entire dialog track of his movie by ONLY using lav's.
On top of that obviously the OP is a beginner and you're opening a whole can of worms as far as more gear needed, and more important issues of hiding lav's under clothing.

If the original poster is on a small budget by SERIOUS ABOUT SOUND, in PRE PRODUCTION he will design his shots to allow a boom to get in to where it needs to be.

In big budget movies there are many times where they decide on angles that are awful for production sound but they have the money to fix it later.
There are also many many examples of big budget movies where the shots were done in a way that a boom would always be used.

I think most people would agree that telling a good story (and being able to understand it) outweighs any fancy camera work.

The OP should get a quality boom mic, and a quality recorder (for what his budget allows) to start. Wireless mic's, mixers, etc will come later.
 
wireless does not automatically means lav.
wireless just means you will not be limited by the presence of a cable.
today, most electronic device recording audio exceed what the average ear.
 
nosys70 said:
wireless does not automatically means lav.
wireless just means you will not be limited by the presence of a cable.
today, most electronic device recording audio exceed what the average ear.
Click to expand...

Why on earth does the OP now need a wireless boom?

So you want him not only to buy a worse recorder and microphone you want him to use a lower end wireless system for that low end mic instead of using a $15 dollar cable.
OK!
 
nosys70 said:
wireless does not automatically means lav.
wireless just means you will not be limited by the presence of a cable.
today, most electronic device recording audio exceed what the average ear.
Click to expand...

You've forgotten the wise soundman's axiom: "Whenever you are able, you should use a cable!"
 
when it is about to spend the money of other people, the advices are always very high end level.
yep, buy a truck full of costly equipement, and hire a full time of audio engineer for your next movie, you will get
probably broke, but at least you will not get it it wrong ?
 
nosys70 said:
when it is about to spend the money of other people, the advices are always very high end level.
yep, buy a truck full of costly equipement, and hire a full time of audio engineer for your next movie, you will get
probably broke, but at least you will not get it it wrong ?
Click to expand...
Nosys are you even reading our posts?

YOU are the one telling him to purchase an item that costs hundreds of dollars (for an inexpensive one) when
we are saying a $15 dollar cable is all thats needed. YOU are the one telling him to buy more gear than he needs.
 
no, i tell him to buy a $99 recorder and a $450 wireless mic, about the same than the tascam + a wire + a mic
so he puts the money where it is required.
the zoom1 h1 is functionally the same as the tascam, a recorder with 2 mics at less than half the price.
but if he plans to mount the recorder on his 60D and record from the internal mics, he can as much record from the 60D, he will get a lousy sound (the most stupid place to mount a mic is on the camera, but unfortunately it is also the most common place to find a mic), so my advice to add the wireless mic to make the recorder usefull.
 
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nosys70 said:
no, i tell him to buy a $99 recorder and a $450 wireless mic, about the same than the tascam + a wire + a mic
so he puts the money where it is required.
the zoom1 h1 is functionally the same as the tascam, a recorder with 2 mics at more than half the price.
Click to expand...
This will be my last post, but you're saying he is to do a feature film with 1 wireless system and a recorder with built in microphones
to do a feature length film?
You mention earlier that when you say wireless you dont mean a lav but where is the money to buy the actual boom microphone for the wireless system?
And if you truly didn't mean a lav, why would you spend $450 to make a boom mic wireless when there is no need?

I'm really not trying to be mean by saying this but perhaps you should do a little reading yourself before you start giving advice in sound.

Im sincerely not being mean when I say that, it's just a fact.
 
when you plan to shoot a feature film , you do not choose between a TASCAM DR-100 or TASCAM HD-P2.
you take a sound professional and let him decide or bring what he needs.
 
nosys70 said:
when you plan to shoot a feature film , you do not choose between a TASCAM DR-100 or TASCAM HD-P2.
you take a sound professional and let him decide or bring what he needs.
Click to expand...

Now THAT is the smartest thing you've said in the entire thread!
 
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manglerBMX said:
the only issue i see arising with the dr100 is its mic preamps. they aren't as nice as the hd-p2's.
Click to expand...

I'm planning on getting a Sound Devices Mix-Pre.

With that you just put the recorder into "Line", right?

So, aside from the Preamps, there isn't a real difference between the 100 and the P2 audio quality?
 
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I have been very pleased with my DR-100 with a mixer in front of it. The only downside is on the DR-100, the line in is 3.5mm unbalanced, where on the P2, it's balanced XLRs. The short length of cable between the mixer and recorder reduces the unbalanced cable's tendancy to pick up noise. I had to place foam pieces in my bag to get the DR-100 oriented so I could see the meters and battery state but it works just fine. I also liked the remote control on the DR-100 (which can be used wired), which I mounted to the bottom of my boom pole and gave me quick access to record and stop.

The P2 is bag friendly, supports BWF, and project/scene/take naming conventions.

Soundwise, I'd be really surprised of there was a considerable difference in sound quality when using line inputs on these two devices.

Not sure where you're located, but I have my DR-100 for sale right for $225 as Santa just brought me a DR680. I'm in the Atlanta area.

Thomas Church said:
I'm planning on getting a Sound Devices Mix-Pre.

With that you just put the recorder into "Line", right?

So, aside from the Preamps, there isn't a real difference between the 100 and the P2 audio quality?
Click to expand...
 
Someone mentioned the Tascam 680, I think it looks nice, and it's within my budget.

How good is it?

Does it also accept scene, shot, take info, etc?

It seems like a device that's more future proof, with 8 tracks and all.

Is it still recommended to get the Sound Devices Mix-Pre if I'm using the 680? How good are the 680's preamps?

I'm asking these questions because I own a small production company that does a lot of low budget/no budget stuff, and it ends up being better for me to own my own gear.

And audio gear usually lasts a lot longer than any camera.
 
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