Exporting out without recompression

J

James M

Member
I'm an FCP user dipping my toe into Premiere waters, so forgive the n00bness.

Most of my work sees me use prores (converted from SLR footage). As I understand Premiere (and I may be wrong), I create a 'custom' seq preset, and make all the settings look like the ProRes variant I'm using, before selecting the preview file codec as the ProRes I want eg ProRes422(HQ). So far so simple.


Once I start cutting, my timeline shows yellow - indicating I might need to render. Have I done something wrong, or is that normal for ProRes in a ProRes sequence?


I come to export, and I want to do the FCP equivalent of export 'current settings', where I know that if what I have on my timeline is untouched ProRes, what I'd get out is untouched ProRes which would be my Master file. So back in Premiere, in the export dialogue box, I tick 'match sequence settings' and hit go. Is that the same deal as the FCP 'current settings'? Am I exporting without recompressing? Is this the best way to spit out my ProRes master file or am I missing a trick?


Thanks in advance.
PS. CS5.5 fact fans
 
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Premiere doesn't have native ProRes support, so it cannot export it (this might be different on OSX if you have FCP installed - I'm on Windows). Most people here seem to either edit the AVCHD footage natively or work with DNxHD.
 
If you want to export at minimised loss...edit your source natively and export uncompressed QT or uncompressed avi. Huge files will result but thats the deal about loss / lossless.

The match sequence settings is not a good way to go and not similar to your FCP export workflow. It will be lossy.
 
Thanks for the replies.

What if I export to DNxHD? While a lossy codec would it be a safer bet than other more lossy ones? I also seem to be able to export to ProRes from Premiere, since going back for a second attempt. Is that still not advisable, Shooter?

I'm not sure why it's taking me such a long time to get my head around the workflow options.
 
On a Mac, you can actually have a pro res workflow. Basically, you set up a sequence to use ProRes quicktime files as your preview files. Check this:
https://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2011/08/a-prores-workflow-end-to-end.html

James M said:
Thanks for the replies.

What if I export to DNxHD? While a lossy codec would it be a safer bet than other more lossy ones? I also seem to be able to export to ProRes from Premiere, since going back for a second attempt. Is that still not advisable, Shooter?

I'm not sure why it's taking me such a long time to get my head around the workflow options.
Click to expand...
 
If you want to edit ProRes in the best settings for Premiere, drag a ProRes MOV clip onto the "New Item" icon in the bottom of the Project pane. This will automatically create a sequence with the best settings for editing that format of video. Premiere does not require the same specific codec in its sequence settings as the clips in the sequence, unlike FCP.

If you want a lossless export, do what Shooter said. Your options are Uncompressed MOV/AVI or DPX/CIN.
 
Jim Simon said:
It'll recompress. PP doesn't do "smart rendering" with QuickTime files.
Click to expand...

I think this is sort of a misthink here... FCP does not 'avoid' recompression, it just hides it via the rendering of previews that make editing play back 'faster'.

Once the movie is 'ready for export', then FCP picks up the rendered previews in a 'smart' fashion but they are most likely 'recompressed' from the original media, unless one imports ProRes directly... if one worries about this for processing by others and one is making an intermediate to forward along the workflow... one has few options for lossless compression. a series of TIFF images can be losslessly compressed. But even with that one can expect GB's of file sizes for the 'littlest' of clips...

As far as I can tell, Premiere Pro will use the 'orginal media', then render to output codec, and unless told to do so, will not use the 'preview renders', since one can have those in a different codec than either the original media, or the output codec, I think the default is i-frame only mpeg.

One can also in Premiere Pro ask for 'highest quality render'... which adds to the render time as well...

The only way to avoid loss due to recompression is to... not compress with a lossy codec at all... from beginning to end...

Even if the workflow is AVCHD to AVCHD... in order to perform frame to frame edits, recompression is required.

The only thing one can do, is to minimize the number of compressions that occur.

In film film days, recompression was called 'making an interneg or interpositive'... and while film film had better resolution, each stage of interpositve/negatve transfers incurred a loss...

In a word... there is no free lunch...

Well... different than in the film film days... one can make replications of output that are exactly like one another... no ragged sprocket holes, dust, scratches on the master... so maybe there's at least a free muffin with your meal...
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Once the movie is 'ready for export', then FCP picks up the rendered previews in a 'smart' fashion but they are most likely 'recompressed' from the original media, unless one imports ProRes directly...
Click to expand...

My workflow is normally a ProRes one. I was under the impression that, with FCP, if I put a ProRes422 clip on a ProRes422 timeline and exported it 'current settings, there was no recompression (unless I'd done effects/colour correction). Am I mistaken?
 
In the case of SLR footage, I used to use to 5DtoRGB for footage where I knew I was going to have to do heavy effects work and grading (better chroma smoothing and subsampling). In my Premiere workflow, should I edit natively or transcode to ProRes with 5DtoRGB (the effects will be done in AE)?
 
James M said:
My workflow is normally a ProRes one. I was under the impression that, with FCP, if I put a ProRes422 clip on a ProRes422 timeline and exported it 'current settings, there was no recompression (unless I'd done effects/colour correction). Am I mistaken?
Click to expand...

I think the 'qualifier' here is 'if you capture in ProRes', then yes, there 'should be no recompression' on ProRes output, given equivalent selection of ProRes options (HQ/422,whatever).

If you capture in something other than ProRes, you will transcode to ProRes, which may minimize compression loss in subsequent processing, provided the ultimate output codec is again ProRes.

ProRes is an 'intraframe' compression method, which means that each frame can be 'addressed' directly, rather than created as a sum of frame. AVC-Intra would also be in that class as well...

That being said... if there is any processing, transitions other than simple 'cuts', these need to be processed and 'recompressed'... So, unless the 'codec' is able to handle a custom LUT, to effect color grading on the fly, on output... something as simple as adding a color change, even if it makes it 'better'... will effect a recompression.
 
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