Exporting from premiere without clipping and picture quality loss.

Amadou

Amadou

Carbonite Member
We filmed a movie in XDCAM EX and went to the color correction facility to do colour correction on a Da Vinci. We exported the movie from our Premiere Timeline into an intermediate codec called Cineform. When viewed on the Colour Correction Oscilloscope, the Cineform whites where clipped. The colour corrector suspects the Premiere tends to clip any whites above 100% during export. Ideally he would like me to export again but turn off the clipping in Premiere and preserve all the XDcam information. Does anybody know how to do that? Thank you.
 
Cineform supports Superwhites, so you seem to be losing them either during the decode into Premiere, or the encode out of Premiere. Do you see Superwhites when you view the YC parade on the timeline?

It doesn't sound like you are applying filters, but be aware that some Premiere filters (like RGB) clip dsuperwhites, but others don't (like Fast Color Corrector). The little YUV symbol beside the filter name tells you which is which.
 
I just checked, and I can import an MTS file from my AF100 that has superwhites into Premiere Pro CS5.5 and see those superwhites on the YC Waveform display.

I can then export to Cineform avi and provided I have the "Use Maximum Render Quality" checked on the render screen the superwhites are retained in the resulting avi file. However, if that box isn't checked then the resulting avi file is clamped to 100IRE.

So, @Amadou, perhaps the solution for you could be as simple as making sure that box is checked?

As an aside, I learned tonight that my AF100 records superwhites whereas my GH2 does not ... I had never realized that before.
 
It does not matter what option I check when exporting Cineform, whether it is YUV or RGB, Maximum Render or not, it keeps clipping the whites. This is crazy. Is there no white clipping deactivation option in Premiere?

By the way, I use Premiere 5.0.
 
Try submitting a support request to the Cineform folk: http://support.cineform.com/home

Are you encoding to avi or mov?

Edit: to answer your question, no there's no "deactivation" option, because with 'maximum render quality' selected it should be exporting the superwhites. Maybe an issue with the particular codecs on your machine, or that version of Premiere? Sorry I can't help.
 
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I use Premiere 5.0 under win 7. Cineform NEO version 5.6.

The film was done in XD CAM EX 35mb/s 4:2:0

I export to MOV.

I tried all exporte options. All rendered cineform options ranging froml HIG to FILM 2 with or without MAXIMUM REDER clip the superwhites. This is really a problem.
 
I dont get why you dont export an EDL for the colorist.

Professional workflow is alway stay generationally close to the source file. You will be working with re-compressed files. Even if you use the other codecs suggested in your other threads to achieve "super white".

Advantage of the EDL is the colorist has all the clips as "clips" and not a single video stream ( which is a hassle)
 
Amadou said:
I use Premiere 5.0 under win 7. Cineform NEO version 5.6.
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I just tried an export to AVI from Premiere 5.0 under Win7 using Neo5.6, and it preserved the superwhites just fine. So the MOV encoding is the source of your problem.
 
Shooter, I already told you why I can't use the source files. Simply because the Colorist did not tell me about all these codec problems and he even told me it was not necessary. I therefore did not clean up my Premiere Timeline and bring him the source files. I simply rendered the timeline in Cineform and then cut up the Cineform to generate an EDL. It was his lack of foresight. Now he claims it was my fault as this is not his job but an assistant's job (the usual bullshit excuse). Now that the colour correction is done, he does not want to go back and change his Da Vincy setup other than to replace one rendered file with another. If I could, knowing what I know now, I would obviously do it differently.
 
Amadou said:
Shooter, I already told you why I can't use the source files. Simply because the Colorist did not tell me about all these codec problems and he even told me it was not necessary. I therefore did not clean up my Premiere Timeline and bring him the source files. I simply rendered the timeline in Cineform and then cut up the Cineform to generate an EDL. It was his lack of foresight. Now he claims it was my fault as this is not his job but an assistant's job (the usual bulls*%t excuse). Now that the colour correction is done, he does not want to go back and change his Da Vincy setup other than to replace one rendered file with another. If I could, knowing what I know now, I would obviously do it differently.
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I must of missed your explanation!

Looking at all your threads on the subject..I dont think you have basic understanding of codecs and the workflow pipeline...which BTW is the editors responsibilty in consultation with the colorist. Maybe even one you should have tested.
 
Shooter, I am the editor/director. I have a colorist. If you know so much about workflow, perhaps you could be more helpful than to simply give unproductive comments. Right now you are simple being a wiseass.
 
Not sure what you're doing wrong but I've just had to export avchd footage as mov from premiere cs5 timeline using cineform neo scene and looking at the waveform there is the same info above 100 in the avchd and mov footage
 
ade4all, the difference occurs in the superwhites. If you scene has hot spots you should see it. Look at the superwhites (Anything above 100%), and click back and forth between the original and Cineform. The Cineform on my computer clips all the whites to 100%. That means the valleys and mountains above 100 become a straight horizontal line.

Take a look: http://www.b-mol.com/test/cineform_clipping.jpg
 
Well as I mentioned you must have something set up wrong cause my cineform mov's look pretty much identical to the original avchd - with no clipping at 100
 
Which part of "there is the same info above 100 in the avchd and mov footage" was ambiguous to you?
 
I run into that same problem about a year ago - had nothing to do with Cineform though.

I solved it by opening the Premiere project in AE, switched it to a 16bit project and exported Tiff files with "Trillions of colors".
 
Amadou said:
Shooter, I am the editor/director. I have a colorist. If you know so much about workflow, perhaps you could be more helpful than to simply give unproductive comments. Right now you are simple being a wiseass.
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I have stayed out of all your threads you posted on this same subject, as they have the same flavor as a typical ironpony thread, where someone else "insert colorist here" gets blamed for your own lack of knowledge on a particular subject,... until now.

You need to lighten up that adittude, and open your ears!

#1: You are the one that has a lack of understanding when it comes to setting up your workstation/software/workflow, if you didn't you would not be here asking for help.

#2: Industry professionals have offered up thoughtful help and guidance in your multiple threads to help you work out your issues, and just like an ironpony thread, you blow them off, fire back with misinformation, and then label them as wiseasses when you do not hear what you want.

You have the opportunity to learn valuable information here.

Why not learn what you can and get through this issue, rather than putting up a fight?


All the Best!

Dave
 
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Amadou said:
Shooter, I am the editor/director. I have a colorist. If you know so much about workflow, perhaps you could be more helpful than to simply give unproductive comments. Right now you are simple being a wiseass.
Click to expand...


The advice I gave you was.

Firstly -Use a tested workflow and export an edl so that your colorist could use the source files.

Secondly -- use an uncompressed intermediate.

Both are complete and precise workflows used by professionals.

Fact you are exporting a timeline to a colorist is part of your issue.

BTW - what are you going to do with these "super whites"? ie where is your program destined to be displayed?
 
David, you say my workflow is wrong and the professionals here have helped. All very nice but I don't see where my workflow is wrong and in what way the professionals here are responded to the key issue.

WORKFLOW: To export and deliver Cineform. I edit in XDCAM under Premiere CS5. I export to Cineform NEO 5.6 from the timeline using YUV Maximum Quality (I also tried all other settings).

TEST: Take the expoted Cineform file and place it on top of the original. Lower the brightness and contrast on both. Here are the results: http://www.b-mol.com/test/cineform_image_test.jpg

No professional here has been able to explain this problem away.
 
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