Experienced writers here?

J_Barnes

J_Barnes

Veteran
II'm looking for some unbiased opinions about a script I wrote a while back.

For various reasons the project never got off the ground, but most people who read it either loved it or hated it. I'm considering trying to rewrite the thing to fit currently available locations, but every time I look at it, I wonder if it's just too depressing or too heavy for people to like.

(I never thought it was that depressing, but a few people had some real reactions to the material while others thought it was fascinating)

So I'm hoping that there might be a few people here who've got some experience writing/reading/rewriting scripts and might be willing to give it a read. I'm not looking for someone to help rewrite it, I just want some unbiased notes from people who don't know me (and thus have no opinions about my writing).

It's about 26 pages in a PDF file, and it's a bit of a thick read, but if anyone's up for it...I can send it on over via email.
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

djw@genjerdan.com

If you don't mind a writer who has never sold anything. :)

This is for your own consumption, right? So you don't care too much about proper formatting, spelling, and such. Just story, structure, "cinematic quality"?

Dan
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

Hey guys...yeah, I gotta pull the script off another computer.

As far as I know it's formatted correctly, edited for grammar and spelling and all that goodness. I'm not concerned so much about the structure as I am about the actual material.

I've been told a bunch of different things by a bunch of different readers, and I suspect that many of them were influenced because they either had some involvement in the project (as in me asking them to be in it, or them asking me to be in it), or because they have some involvement with me and are worred about saying what they really think.

I'll try to send a copy to youz guyz later this afternoon.
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

I PM you my email address. What is it about? Or would you rather have us read it without any information?
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

I'd be glad to read it as well, and try to get back to you as soon as possible, though I've got a busy next few weeks. I'll PM you my e-mail.
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

Hey y'all...sent scripts out via email to Stas_Tagios, TylerGred and GenJerDan this morning.

Read at your leasure, I've been told it's a difficult read for some.

And thanks again for looking at it.
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

whats your log line on the piece?


i find that if a work has a good log line.....it usually has a much greater chance of good execution. though some writers can take a great idea and muck it up totally. (hollywood script doctors..wink wink nudge nudge)
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

[quote author=IsraelHoudini link=board=writing;num=1090417512;start=0#10 date=07/29/04 at 02:31:43]whats your log line on the piece?  


i find that if a work has a good log line.....it usually has a much greater chance of good execution. though some writers can take a great idea and muck it up totally. (hollywood script doctors..wink wink nudge nudge)[/quote]

Ugh! Log line!

Nothing like asking a writer to reduce his entire piece to a single sentance.

"A guy gets haunted by a series of wacky ghosts who teach him to love christmas."

"The young leader of a rebel gang pisses off the elders and gets nailed to a piece of wood."

"A bunch of short guys go searching for a magic ring."

"A guy gets stuck in a love triangle with only two people, and ends up shooting himself in the face."

"Several seedy individuals cross paths, and while fighting over an elusive briefcase, a big black man gets raped in a basement."

Obviously I'm joking here, but those could all be log lines from existing books and movies. THey're acurate deductions of the story, but don't really give an acurate appreciation for the content.

I can't come up with a log line to my script, which might be one of the many reasons why I'm having trouble with it.

How about: "Depressed guy questions the validity of science, drawing similarities between life and code whilst meandering down a path of distruction."



I'll send a copy to those of you that asked for it later this evening, but after that I won't be needing any more readers.

Thanks for everyone who's participated so far, the advice has been invaluable.
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

[move]"I can't come up with a log line to my script, which might be one of the many reasons why I'm having trouble with it."[/move]

>>>>i rest my case. a good writer keeps the singular vision throughout the writing process. and you yourself can see this is evident. without a clear spine you have...a disheveled mess of language. find your spine and youll find your story.
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

[quote author=IsraelHoudini link=board=writing;num=1090417512;start=0#12 date=07/29/04 at 23:14:54][move]"I can't come up with a log line to my script, which might be one of the many reasons why I'm having trouble with it."[/move]

>>>>i rest my case.  a good writer keeps the singular vision throughout the writing process. and you yourself can see this is evident.  without a clear spine you have...a disheveled mess of language. find your spine and youll find your story.[/quote]

I completely disagree with your blanket statement, and without intending any disrespect, it makes me wonder how much writing experience you have...either as an observer or participant.

I would say that a good director is able to keep a clear vision of the spine, but many writers are too involved in the subtext of the spines and various arcs to realistically deduce their material to a single sentence. I don't mean that it isn't possible, I just mean that for many writers, a single line cheapens the work they've put into the storyline, and that’s what I was attempting to illustrate in my previous post.

Again, there are obviously some writers that are able to do this with ease, but there are also some who absorb themselves in the details so much that it becomes difficult to strike a single note from the score, but that doesn't mean that the writing they do is overly complicated or unfocused.

To imply that I have a disheveled mess of language isn't fair without actually READING the material, furthermore to say that an implied lack of clarity on my part is the singular problem with my script...well, it's obviously an uninformed opinion based entirely on a single post in a newsgroup.

Blanket statements and divisive opinions work better in technical arenas where facts matter more then opinion, but often enough in writing the results of the effort are wholly different from the author’s ability to quantify it.

I would suggest that you should actually bother to learn something about the script before offering a dismissive opinion about it. I don't mean to say that your opinions don't matter, just that they are uninformed...and to offer them so aggressively does a disservice any writer who puts his ego in the line of fire by offering their work up for scrutiny.

That being said, you could quite possibly reach the same opinion after you read it, but at least then you’d have something to base your opinion upon.
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

I hate loglines. :) I can see their use...if someone has 50 or 100 scripts dropped on their desk each day, a logline may help narrow the field of what to read and what to toss...in a general sort of way. A logline for Gone With The Wind might tell enough for the potential reader to keep or toss, depending on whether they want to do a Civil War drama, but it couldn't possibly tell the reader whether the screenplay was "good" or "bad".

Then again, I might just think that because I suck at loglines. :D

viz. "When the Doomsday Clock finally ticks over to midnight, who will be left to pick up the pieces? The Anson family survives the apocalypse, only to face yet another threat in the mountains of Pennsylvania."

Sounds more like a TV Guide blurb.

Dan
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=writing;num=1090417512;start=0#13 date=07/30/04 at 06:27:17]

it makes me wonder how much writing experience you have...either as an observer or participant.




well, lets see. ive written and directed multiple works. some of which have won awards. had the oppurtunity to read a plethora of produced and ametuer pieces and viewed, in the last...3 years...approximately 700 films as a critic. my current project is headed to the largest studio on earth.

one of the glaring signals of problems with an author or a piece is the inability to deduce its core (i.e. a logline). if i had to put money on whether a writer could deliver the goods and i could only ask one question beforehand i would base it solely on the ability to define the core of the work, be it a script or a film. good writers can do it and so can good directors. if you can't, i would put forth that maybe one should consider novel writing instead.

now, some writers can write a fantastic logline but couldnt deliver the goods to save thier life (look at the slate of typical summer 'blockbusters' to see my point), but i have never met a writer who could deliver and not give a decent logline. that is the nature of the business . . . even though idealistic and/or naive writers continue to maintain the idea that to do so is somehow 'evil' or 'cheapens' thier work.
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

Nobody really knows what's "good" or is going to be a hit when it comes to writing. If they did they would just punch them out like widgets on an assembly line. That even carries over to finished movies. The executives at Paramount thought "Shane" was so bad tehy didn't want to release it. Then they tried to sell it. But all those other savvy studies passed on it, too.

The best indication comes when you let your little darling see the light of day, that is you let the public read it. Most people aren't sophisticated reviewers or intellectuals. They just read it and know at a gut level that they like it or don't like it.

So a good start would be to let enough people read your stuff and then listen real carefully to the feedback. All writers have a bias toward their own material and tend to be defensive when they hear something unflattering, but if the "constructive" critisism is on the mark you will instinctively know it.

I'll be happy to read your story if you're still sharing it.
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

[quote author=IsraelHoudini link=board=writing;num=1090417512;start=15#15 date=07/31/04 at 01:29:38]
one of the glaring signals of problems with an author or a piece is the inability to deduce its core (i.e. a logline)[/quote]

I read an artcle that Aaron Sorkin wrote and he said the exact same thing...
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

[quote author=IsraelHoudini link=board=writing;num=1090417512;start=15#15 date=07/31/04 at 01:29:38] well, lets see. ive written and directed multiple works. some of which have won awards. had the oppurtunity to read a plethora of produced and ametuer pieces and viewed, in the last...3 years...approximately 700 films as a critic. my current project is headed to the largest studio on earth.[/quote]

Well that's all very vague, and anyone who would check your past posts could see that you seem to be asking a lot of simple questions in these technical forums for a director who's "current project is headed to the largest studio on earth". I'll also add that I didn't ask you to justify your opinion by quoting some vague resume, what I'm saying instead is that you are unable to assist me in the way I asked at the start of the topic.

There are a lot of people at various stages of their careers in these forums, and it’s expected that we can share and learn from each other. We don’t all have to pretend to be experts.

Please understand that I'm not meaning to insult you or discount your opinion (when defensible), but what I asked for were experienced writers who would be interested in reading my script, not people who might offer a cursory anecdote about screenwriting.

What I have is not a commercially viable project, it is not the ideal festival short, and it is not a project that can be easily filed into a specific category. It is a piece of writing that I have only minor interest in trying to shoot someday, and I wanted some unbiased opinions about the writing.

Any "glaring signals of problems" as you say are not appropriate to point out without reading the material. And I appreciate you hinting at an "idealistic" nature (or naive as you say), but the truth is that I don't want to give you a log line and that's why I am not. I asked for writers who would be interested in reading it and would be unbiased, but you seem to be quite closed and dismissive...and generally disinterested in reading it as well.

It's great that you think you know what's wrong with my script, but I'm suggesting that your opinion is gravely uninformed, and that would seem to be the least defensible type of opinion.
 
Re: Experienced writers here?

i ask the questions i need answers to as the consumer level digital domain and amatuer authors is new to me. its quite a different world from that of the professional. i write and i direct, and now, moving into the independant world i wear many more hats and am in the process of learning all of them.

call an agent or producer and ask them how they feel about log lines. arguing with the truth will not change it. read some books on the matter, consult some writing gurus. a pattern will emerge...and it is exactly what i stated

So I'm hoping that there might be a few people here who've got some experience writing/reading/rewriting scripts and might be willing to give it a read
Click to expand...

you asked for experienced, and i attempted to use my experience to help you. if you dont want it, thats your perogative, but blasting what anyone in the know will tell you is common knowledge in the writing world is not going to change things to accomodate you or your views on the matter.

will you read this?
Click to expand...
is most often answered by:
whats it about?
Click to expand...

a simple question requiring only a simple reply, often called......a log line.

the problem was stated outrightly...lack of an awareness for what the piece was about manifested itself in a less than stellar execution. experience dictates that admonishing the underlying core will benefit the writing and assist you in finding the correction you seek. arguing with the truth will not change it.

being said, i rest my case.

and thusly, i will read your writing if you send it. if i am wrong i will so post.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top