ETC Source Four LED Series 3

Very interesting! It looks like they are really starting to fill out that spectrum with the 8 colour LED mix…. The smoothness of the spectrum graph might be improved with a white LED or two? But perhaps it’s just not needed at this point..

Edit: Just came across the ‘Fos4’ panel lights and fresnel fixtures that they are making. They also have the 8 LED array of this new series 3. Unfortunately the only brightness measurements they are giving is in Lumens, there is no reference to power draw and they are some of the most expensive panel lights I have ever seen… hmmm would still like to know more
 
Last edited:
These look great, but sound really expensive. And speaking of sound, I wonder how loud the internal fans are, considering these are mainly designed as theatrical and grid installed fixtures, that are typically not in close proximity to microphones?

I was also just inquiring with Barbizon recently about the Source 4WRD LED retrofits for existing traditional tungsten Source Four fixtures, because I’d really like to move the two that I have back into my regular gear package. But they have limitations, compared to today’s LED fixtures. Namely no app control and local(on-body) control is limited to a handful of presets(you can load your own, though). I can live with no app, but no native full local color control takes a lot of shine off of them.

*Edit*. Yeah, you’re looking at ~$3200 a pop with lens for the series 3’s.
 
Last edited:
Run&Gun said:
These look great, but sound really expensive. And speaking of sound, I wonder how loud the internal fans are, considering these are mainly designed as theatrical and grid installed fixtures, that are typically not in close proximity to microphones?

I was also just inquiring with Barbizon recently about the Source 4WRD LED retrofits for existing traditional tungsten Source Four fixtures, because I’d really like to move the two that I have back into my regular gear package. But they have limitations, compared to today’s LED fixtures. Namely no app control and local(on-body) control is limited to a handful of presets(you can load your own, though). I can live with no app, but no native full local color control takes a lot of shine off of them.

*Edit*. Yeah, you’re looking at ~$3200 a pop with lens for the series 3’s.
Click to expand...

Very good point about the fan noise and the fact these are mainly designed for theatrical use. It does look like you can get them quite a bit cheaper: https://proadv.com/etc-series-3-lustr-x8-source-four-led-ellipsoidal/

I’m actually surprised at how cheap the lenses are if the optical quality is good. Getting a Dedolight setup with the same brightness and a projection attachment costs a lot more… An Aputure 300d with projector mount would be cheaper, but the optics probably not as good and no color control etc.

Best bang for the buck is the little forza 60 with its projector mount… that thing is damn bright for 60 watts
 
They're very impressive, but for a non-moving fixture, they're a bit over-specified. They do use the old lens tubes but you won't get the extra light output. Price wise - they're not as expensive as I thought - still three times the price of a tungsten S4, but in my theatre rig I have 20 S4s - zooms, actually, so there simply is no budget to swap them out for these. The red I rather like - I'd find that useful. I'm not sure I'd want to use the remote via an app. Climbing a ladder and getting a phone out, in the dark worries me. I just want DMX control. I'd have no use at all for on fixture controls. It's a nice new product. but quantity with this kind of fixture is what I would need. The idea of the controls lighting up is a gimmick I think.
 
paulears said:
They're very impressive, but for a non-moving fixture, they're a bit over-specified. They do use the old lens tubes but you won't get the extra light output. Price wise - they're not as expensive as I thought - still three times the price of a tungsten S4, but in my theatre rig I have 20 S4s - zooms, actually, so there simply is no budget to swap them out for these. The red I rather like - I'd find that useful. I'm not sure I'd want to use the remote via an app. Climbing a ladder and getting a phone out, in the dark worries me. I just want DMX control. I'd have no use at all for on fixture controls. It's a nice new product. but quantity with this kind of fixture is what I would need. The idea of the controls lighting up is a gimmick I think.
Click to expand...

Paul, derailing my own thread, with my S4/26 degree lens tube, coloured gels start to smoke when placed in a gel holder then dropped into the accessory holder.

Would this gel extender get the gels far enough to not have this problem? I'd test myself but don't have access to the lights at the moment.

I'm waiting on two 10 degree lens tubes to arrive but don't imagine I'll be able to easily gel these lights, which brings us back to the latest ETC Series 3. With the tungsten versions, even if the transmission loss from gels still gives you a brighter light, the issue is getting gels far enough to stop burning.

This was all my original point, if all you need is 3200K then the original S4 is fine, but if you need bright*, narrow beams which have colours, the series 3 makes sense.

* I added bright because you can obviously still use drop in irises to narrow the beam but won't be able to copy the output of a dedicated lens throwing light from a large distance.

Run&Gun said:
These look great, but sound really expensive. And speaking of sound, I wonder how loud the internal fans are, considering these are mainly designed as theatrical and grid installed fixtures, that are typically not in close proximity to microphones?

I was also just inquiring with Barbizon recently about the Source 4WRD LED retrofits for existing traditional tungsten Source Four fixtures, because I’d really like to move the two that I have back into my regular gear package. But they have limitations, compared to today’s LED fixtures. Namely no app control and local(on-body) control is limited to a handful of presets(you can load your own, though). I can live with no app, but no native full local color control takes a lot of shine off of them.

*Edit*. Yeah, you’re looking at ~$3200 a pop with lens for the series 3’s.
Click to expand...

Good point, it'd be interesting to know how much design effort goes into lowering fan noise with these lights, especially since the tungsten lights are silent. I assume it's a theatrical unit first with TV/film sales being a bonus but still a serious enough area to pay attention to.

The plus side is these lights are likely to be used at greater distances than the COB lights (unevenly) filling softboxes, extremely close to talent!
 
Last edited:
For Paul’s use, I can see where the app control and back-lit buttons aren’t really that much of a draw, but for someone like me who would be using it at ground level(not in a grid) and making adjustments every time it’s used in the ever-changing environments of “interview location du jour’, they’re pretty pretty much a necessity(at least full on-body and/or app control)(back-lit color coded buttons are a big bonus).

I guess another option is the Hive adapters to use my 100 or 200 C’s with my existing barrels. But I’ve always kind of thought they were a little pricey for what they are.

I’d like to see the S4s3 in-person, and Barbizon usually has a lot of theatrical fixtures on display, but my local one still hasn’t recovered from the COVID shut-down. It looks like they were robbed. I went in last week for a few basics: some grip heads and wall plates. They had ONE grip head and ONE wall plate in stock.
 
I've never thought about using source 4's for video on a stand - do you use them for throwing patterns, or as a tight key light? Never really thought to even try? I can see the colour tweaking benefits now.

On the old S4 front, I rarely get grief with gels - even saturated ones from Lee Filters here in the UK, but they do burn and need replacing frequently - as they do even more with PAR64s. Those extenders are common in the long term West End shows where economy of gel use is important - but I treat it as a consumable, and due to LEDs, my gel budget has dropped so much, I just throw anything slightly faded straight in the bin. Those extenders also work as a snoot, and there's a small improvement in gobo sharpness.
 
paulears said:
I've never thought about using source 4's for video on a stand - do you use them for throwing patterns, or as a tight key light? Never really thought to even try? I can see the colour tweaking benefits now.
Click to expand...

Paul, have a look at Charles' response, it's the last post in this thread from 2011 - https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/production-tools/lighting-gear/239399-source-4/page2?237372-Source-4=

A video example from Shane Hurlbut, time stamped to bypass the history lesson at the beginning - https://youtu.be/9f8Twb0uCq0?t=227
 
paulears said:
I've never thought about using source 4's for video on a stand - do you use them for throwing patterns, or as a tight key light? Never really thought to even try? I can see the colour tweaking benefits now.

On the old S4 front, I rarely get grief with gels - even saturated ones from Lee Filters here in the UK, but they do burn and need replacing frequently - as they do even more with PAR64s. Those extenders are common in the long term West End shows where economy of gel use is important - but I treat it as a consumable, and due to LEDs, my gel budget has dropped so much, I just throw anything slightly faded straight in the bin. Those extenders also work as a snoot, and there's a small improvement in gobo sharpness.
Click to expand...

Yes sir. Used to use them to throw break-ups on the back ground all the time. We used to say they were the best bargain in lighting.

I did just do a shoot a month or so ago with some of my friends for the open on a doc of a sports figure where we used them as keys, though. We shot tungsten and cross lit the subject in an X pattern from a walkway about 15’ or so above the floor he was on, keying him with the two S4’s and hitting him from the back with two 800 HMI’s and letting the environment go blue.
 
Last edited:
Run&Gun said:
Reading Charles’ post gives me some ideas I want to try now…
Click to expand...

Haha same here. I've got a shoot coming up where space is limited and it'd be good to start with a filled bounce card but have the ability to turn it a more obvious source if needed.

The 10 degree lens tubes arrived. I had no idea they're not glass lenses but instead a "micro-groove plastic fresnel". The extra length (and maybe plastic?) means it doesn't get hot enough to burn gels and the gel holder is exactly 12"x12" so I can easily add sets of gels - ETC's original lights continue to get in the way of their modern replacements.

10 degree next to 26 degree, gel holder.

IMG_5824.jpgIMG_5830.jpg
 
Thanks for the photos Rob, very surprised they are using plastic? I’m assuming you are not using these with the old tungsten based source 4’s? Or is it some sort of special heat resistant plastic?

Also curious to hear your thoughts on the optical quality of the new lenses.
 
chris_f said:
Thanks for the photos Rob, very surprised they are using plastic? I’m assuming you are not using these with the old tungsten based source 4’s? Or is it some sort of special heat resistant plastic?

Also curious to hear your thoughts on the optical quality of the new lenses.
Click to expand...

Using it with the original tungsten 750W versions.

I assume part of the plastic is to stop it from being so front heavy. At first I thought it was the seller’s own replacement but then checked the ETC documentation and saw it was official.

I’m interested in the differences but probably wouldn’t pay a premium for the new tech to pair with the older lights. The sharpest of gobos and colour fringing hasn’t been a huge issue in my world just yet.

If you went down the pricey path of the series 3 then at that point you might as well go with the latest lenses too.
 
rob norton said:
Paul, have a look at Charles' response, it's the last post in this thread from 2011 - https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/production-tools/lighting-gear/239399-source-4/page2?237372-Source-4=

A video example from Shane Hurlbut, time stamped to bypass the history lesson at the beginning - https://youtu.be/9f8Twb0uCq0?t=227
Click to expand...

I don't know if Shane points it out somewhere in his dialogue, but I always considered one of the best uses for a JoLeko was to motivate a window in a shot. Rather than trying to tape up some light above the window and running power and flagging, You just hang up a piece of bounce and hit it with a joleko from the the other side of the room. Or just hit a white wall right above the top of the shot. It's a quick way to get a backlight or a key rather than hanging a light from the ceiling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top