Editing is paying off, but how much

Dizkoteck

Dizkoteck

Well-known member
Hey guys,

I usually do a lot of shooting jobs out there and know what to charge for people for a full day of all equipment.
But now my dilemma is editing jobs. How much is the going rate for editing jobs?
There is a per hour fee, but thats kinda hard when Im working at home and the director isnt really seeing me punching in the clock
I was thinking a big flat fee as well but Im affraid of over or under charging.

So how about it guys? whats the going rate these days?
Thanks
 
Varies by geography, currency, market, skill level, client, project requirements, how fast is your computer, what kind of things are you doing, what else.. ? WHat do you charge people for a full day of shooitng? I use a rate about 25% less for editing, but charge hourly. My shooting and edit skills are about equal.

The most important thing is to NOT pad your hours just because no one is watching. In fact, I usually don't even charge for some of my time, like rendering, captures, etc, since the computer is working and I am watching Project Greenlight. When in this kind of situation, give client every benefit and soon you can raise your rates as work starts flowing your way. You will know soon enough if you are underchargeing. If you are overcharging, you may not know why you do not have any work.
 
If you want to make a profit in this business...for post work always charge an hourly rate. Quote say 10 hours @ $150/hr and say anything beyond that will be billed at your hourly rate.

This only makes sense. If you bid a flat rate you'll often get screwed and end up making a buck fifty and hour. If your client says "no way" then you probably don't want to work with them in the first place.

Look at the bidding procedures of any successful post house and they are all like this. You have to do this to make money.
 
I agree with Natob, and charge an hourly rate when I can.
however, on larger jobs, or when doing subcontractor work for some of the other post houses in town I will often charge a day rate. Many of the post houses prefer to work this way, and as someone else mentioned it will all depends on your specific market.

I learned VERY quickly not to charge one flat rate for a whole job.
That's an easy way to shoot yourself in the foot, and as Galt mentioned, you won't learn nearly as much about your rates if you do it that way. By charging an hourly or day rate you'll very quickly get an idea of what to charge people from job to job, instead of making up a rate on the spot based on what you need right then.

My other piece of advice would be don't be afraid to ask for the rate you feel you deserve.
The last thing I need is another guy out there editing for 100 bucks a day who is taking food off my table.
:)
 
As galt pointed out, your skill level off-the-bat is important. As a client, I've been charged hourly by someone who had no business in a studio and then daily by a 25+ year pro. The hourly project cost me more time and money (he never got my business again) than the daily project (which was a music project and was released by Sony, the hourly project was basically pre-production and was more costly hence no more business for that guy).

You generally end up dealing with a suit and the end of a project line who could care less about anything but staying on budget. If you're just getting into this (editing only rates) you don't want to come off cheap and screw yourself but at the same time the word "hourly" will provoke a lot of questions like "do you have a 5 project minimum portfolio with cost info", suits still equate "hourly" with some sort of open check in my experience anyway.

If you can find a comparable project done by a local editor and get their rate info you may want to flat rate it to learn more about your own speed and time (work flow, am I a perfectionist that spends far to much time on insignificant pieces, do I really know my software/tools) just to compete locally. As you go on and get a rep you can name your prices i.e. "yeah, I'm $1,250.00 a day and you can find cheaper but you'll get what you pay for, my work speaks for itself". You’ll be the local ‘bar’ so to speak.

Also, a premium rate for outstanding work will help you weed out a lot of projects you don’t want to deal with. I get calls here and there for what I’m sure would be nightmare projects and my rates blow them off without me having to be rude.

And as Luis pointed out, you definitely don’t want to ridiculously under cut the local market. It makes you look cheap and most pros will disregard you (if it’s too good to be true, it’s crap. If it’s way out of line with the market, the general feeling is there’s something wrong with it). You may get a lot of work but it’ll be soul-destroying crap work and your competitors who are actually running a business will eventually bury you in advertising.

Just another $0.02, Good luck.
 
I just went threw this dillemma myself, I got contracted for a series of commercial/ infomercials, and although I had already met with the company and spoke with the people involved, I had to obviously submit my costs and what they would be getting with that price, I alway's wonder " is that too much $$ to charge, and then I think about it and add up costs and it's average I think" I also wouldn't overcharge, rendering isn't work, and neither is editing for 20 and stoping to talk on the phone.
 
While you're right that stopping to talk on the phone isn't work, and I would never dare charge a client for that, I don't know that I agree on rendering.

Rendering may not be work, but you can't work while you're rendering (unless you have 2 systems). So, on jobs that require heavy render times (color correction, etc), I do charge my clients for the render times, not my full rate obviously (Seeing as I'm free to do other things). But if a project is going to tie up my system for a full day just to render out a master, well then I don't see anything wrong with charging for that time. They are making use of the equipment that I invested in, at the very least. It's either that, or bump up your hourly (or day) rate to cover the difference.

The same goes for capturing footage (which will hopefully be a thing of the past soon).
:)
 
best answer I ever heard is "you are worth whatever you are getting paid." not to be too clever, but there is a lot of wisdom in that statement. going rate is what you can command and keep your clients happy.

someone here has suggested $150/hr (must be nice), someone else may charge 1/10th that (outch!). I'd suggest that if you are at the stage of figuring out a pricing scheme, you come closer to the lower figure and make sure you build a strong client base before trying to command a higher rate.

a lot may also have to do with the client's budget and your willingness to work within their limitations. an editor making $50/hr on one gig, may be willing to take $35/hr on another depending on their need to work and interest in the project. flat/hourly/daily guarantee all may depend on the nature of the project.

there are price ranges for certain types of projects, say a Sitcom, Reality show, or big budget movie. but if you can narrow your question, you may get a more usefull response. what type of project are you currently trying to bid? the more you can describe about your experience, equipment, and the nature of the project, the better answer people on this forum will be able to provide.
 
nullphonic said:
You may get a lot of work but it’ll be soul-destroying crap work and your competitors who are actually running a business will eventually bury you in advertising.
Click to expand...

I thought this was an insightful and fresh thought, and TRUE.
 
On more thought. INn the past when doing consulting work, I alwsy kept my reat near the high end. But especially early on, I would downscale the number of hours it took. I never charged a client for any time I spent learning something (even if it was just for them). When I was done with a task, it may have taken me 8 hours. But knowing what I knew at the end, if I estimated it should have taken 2, then I charged them for 2, maybe 1.5. I always gave the client the benefit of the doubt. And while I got a few less contracts because of my rates, I kept my customers a long time, and did not have to fight the "raising my rates" battle at all. As I got more productive, my actual time came closer to my billed time, and I got more done in a day. Everyone wins.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
on jobs that require heavy render times (color correction, etc), I do charge my clients for the render times, not my full rate obviously (Seeing as I'm free to do other things). But if a project is going to tie up my system for a full day just to render out a master, well then I don't see anything wrong with charging for that time.
Click to expand...

This comment is not directed towards Luis at all, but generally a lot of rendering could be better done with a faster computer. For example, billing a client full rate for rendering when your computer is, say four years old, well that isn't the right thing to do. However, if your system is fairly up to date and loaded to the seams with memory and storage and anything that will speed the process as much as is reasonable, then billing a reduced rate for rendering, as Luis suggested, is the right thing to do. I see things being very different when not using up to date equipment and charging for rendering.. It's not your problem that your computer isn't quick and it isn't right to bill that to a client for using antequated sub-industry standard equipment when billing industry standard hourly rates. Kind of one or the other. Does this make sense?
 
Some of the "charge for render" decision is affected by whether you work at home or in a studio, IMHO. I just consider my work-at-home studio to be a competitive advantage because it is not big deal to take 5 minutes twice during the night (or weekend) to start/adjust a render. If dead time becomes an issue, then it is up to me to buy another piece of hardware just for rendering, take the $3000 cost (just a fast CPU, right?) and amortize it over a year. So assuming I do 500 hours of rendering a year, maybe I would have to charge $6 an hour to cover the machine, and another $12 for profit. The second year the whole $18 is profit :) (minus electric cost). Or maybe a render card solves the whole problem. I am more inclined to raise my hourly rate for editing if I have to, but charge for things like rendering proportionately to cost and time. I would rather edit 40 hours and render 20 on a second machine, than just have 40 hours billed a week because it is tied up rendering. Ultimately, clients only care about what the end result costs, and my business will be stronger as I get more efficient. But everyone has to run their business as they see fit.
 
I got tweaked by the "if your equiptment is up to date or standard" comment. I just want to ask if 2 hours to render a 47 minute clip to microsoft dv avi would be a normal sort of time frame? If you guys are getting better speed...how! Having said that, I always try to charge an honest rate. I'm by no means a seasoned editor and some of my time is spent on client projects as r&d to improve my skills. It may take me an hour or two to come up with a new technique during which time I turn off the clock. Once the technique is perfected I bill for the time it takes to use it as if I always knew it. I charge for rendering time because of the huge amounts of cash support it takes to be able to do it at all.
 
Rendering is machine time which is putting strain on your system. Your CPU, your drives, cables...Yeah you should compensate for slower machines but still, rendering is part of the process unless you are just delivering an EDL. Heres a question to add to the cost. When editing, are you just straight editing or are you doing sound design, creating music, creating effects and so forth? I think $100 per hour is a decent price to charge that includes some of that stuff. I see ads all the time for avid editors wanted and the average pay listed is about $1000 per day so you figure the company is charging more to be able to pay them that.
I also have had a nightmare where i was told i was just doing a straight edit that was due in a few days and i quoted a price. After we got started things started slipping in like getting pick up shots, making music and editing shots to the music. It got to the point where I just said I cant finish this unless you give me more money because this is not what I had signed up for. I got the whole shpiel about there was no more money but lets just get this out the way they want it and be proud of the work. I was like uhhhhh, no, see ya. I really dont like when people try to take advantage like that with the nice smiles and sweet talk. My time is important and I have been busting my butt to learn this so I dont need some producer treating me like a nooby fresh-out-of-collage kid that doesnt know any better and want the credits. That brings me to the point of getting 1/2 up front and the other half on delivery with people that you dont know and go with your gut feeling about the project. If you have a weird feeling its going to be a nightmare it probably is.
 
Its not personal, its business..

Its not personal, its business..

Rate charging should be based on impersonal criteria.

1. If you had to hire someone to edit for you for whatever reason, a.) what will you pay them. b) what does it cost to equip them c) what are the additional cost for employment - benefits, employer tax contributions etc. d) what profit margin must you have to grow your business e) where does your business fit into the market rate

2. Knowing the answers to step 1 will assist you in establishing your day rate.

3. Build a project plan and timeline with milestones and include details for change management procedures and costs. (You should have an electronic template for this)

4. Have everything spelled out in writing with your client especially the terms and conditions. ie. This is a contract.

5. Have the client sign off on the initial plan, projected timeline and terms.

6. Review progress both internally and with client and implement the change management procedures where applicable.

Above all, leave how you feel about, rendering, state of gear, current state of your knowledge and expertise, your learning on this project, etc. out of the picture.

Whatever you ulitmately decide to charge and how, be consistent in your approach.

(Should you decide not to accept this, my secretary will dissavow all of my actions and this post will self destruct in 5 seconds.. 4.. 3.. 2..)


Cheers
 
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