Editing AVCHD in Vegas 9 64-Bit

D

Damien_TOrrence

Member
Here are my specs:

4GB Ram
Intel Quad Core Q6600 2.4 ghz processor
768 mb vram
500 GB 5400 RPM hard drive

I'm saving up for a Sony HDR XR500 and I plan on shooting 1920x1080 @ 16 mbps can my computer handle this? If not what do I need to upgrade?
 
Damien_TOrrence said:
Does transcoding degrade the quality at all?
Click to expand...

Very much dependent on what you transcode to. But it doesn't have to and you'll get tons better performance. In reality, leaving your footage native will do more damage to it in the long run than transcoding it to a proper editing codec.
 
I've gone to DV Proxy files. using Ultimate S from VASST.

From a workflow standpoint, the only "bad part" is the rendering time to create the Proxies. However, if you are transcoding to another format anyway, that is of no consequence.

So the workflow is:
1. Use Vegas-Device Explorer tab to import all AVCHD clips for your project into their own folder.
2. Use Ultimate S - Render Tab to create DV Widescreen Proxies. Create the Proxies in the same directory as source clips.
3. Use Ultimate S - Render Tab to "Swap Project media - Source to target."

At this point your "Project Media" tab of Vegas should have DV files (AVI format) with all the same primary file names as your source files. You can edit in real time with full screen preview of the DV files. You can add lots of tracks, lots of effects, color corrections, etc. just like you do in Standard def.

When you are ALL done with the video editing, the use Ultimate S - Render tab to swap the Soure files back into the project, and render out to your final format.

This process allows you to edit with full preview quality, and still preserve the original integrity and quality of the original viedo. Your unmodified AVCHD files drop back into the timeline with all the edits, corrections and effects already fine tuned and complete.

Ultimate S for Vegas costs just a little more than buying Cineform and you end up with many other time saving tools with Ultimate S, making it quite a bargain in time saved over the long term.


3. After
 
HighDriver said:
I've gone to DV Proxy files. using Ultimate S from VASST.

From a workflow standpoint, the only "bad part" is the rendering time to create the Proxies. However, if you are transcoding to another format anyway, that is of no consequence.

So the workflow is:
1. Use Vegas-Device Explorer tab to import all AVCHD clips for your project into their own folder.
2. Use Ultimate S - Render Tab to create DV Widescreen Proxies. Create the Proxies in the same directory as source clips.
3. Use Ultimate S - Render Tab to "Swap Project media - Source to target."

At this point your "Project Media" tab of Vegas should have DV files (AVI format) with all the same primary file names as your source files. You can edit in real time with full screen preview of the DV files. You can add lots of tracks, lots of effects, color corrections, etc. just like you do in Standard def.

When you are ALL done with the video editing, the use Ultimate S - Render tab to swap the Soure files back into the project, and render out to your final format.

This process allows you to edit with full preview quality, and still preserve the original integrity and quality of the original viedo. Your unmodified AVCHD files drop back into the timeline with all the edits, corrections and effects already fine tuned and complete.

Ultimate S for Vegas costs just a little more than buying Cineform and you end up with many other time saving tools with Ultimate S, making it quite a bargain in time saved over the long term.


3. After
Click to expand...


This is certainly one solution. The idea of the "original integrity and quality" of the video files is something of a misnomer depending on what camera was used to shoot the footage, and what the intermediate (proxy) is.

There are numerous ways to approach this problem and that should receive some careful consideration by the person making the decision.
 
PerroneFord said:
Very much dependent on what you transcode to. But it doesn't have to and you'll get tons better performance. In reality, leaving your footage native will do more damage to it in the long run than transcoding it to a proper editing codec.
Click to expand...


Hey Perrone - nice to see you here. But can you explain what you mean by "do more damage in the long ruin"? I have only used native format input (1920 AVCHD from GH1) and, to my amateur eyes, have never seen a problem. Is there more going on with Vegas than is commonly known?

PS: I recently upgraded from VMS9b to VMS10 and find 10 a lot better when rendering AVCD with no change in video quality that I can see. But preview on 10 is not nearly as good as 9.

My guess is Sony is using us amateurs to test out the 10 code before giving it to you pros.
 
HighDriver said:
I've gone to DV Proxy files. using Ultimate S from VASST.

From a workflow standpoint, the only "bad part" is the rendering time to create the Proxies. However, if you are transcoding to another format anyway, that is of no consequence.

So the workflow is:
1. Use Vegas-Device Explorer tab to import all AVCHD clips for your project into their own folder.
2. Use Ultimate S - Render Tab to create DV Widescreen Proxies. Create the Proxies in the same directory as source clips.
3. Use Ultimate S - Render Tab to "Swap Project media - Source to target."

At this point your "Project Media" tab of Vegas should have DV files (AVI format) with all the same primary file names as your source files. You can edit in real time with full screen preview of the DV files. You can add lots of tracks, lots of effects, color corrections, etc. just like you do in Standard def.

When you are ALL done with the video editing, the use Ultimate S - Render tab to swap the Soure files back into the project, and render out to your final format.

This process allows you to edit with full preview quality, and still preserve the original integrity and quality of the original viedo. Your unmodified AVCHD files drop back into the timeline with all the edits, corrections and effects already fine tuned and complete.

Ultimate S for Vegas costs just a little more than buying Cineform and you end up with many other time saving tools with Ultimate S, making it quite a bargain in time saved over the long term.


3. After
Click to expand...
Is all this native to Vegas or do I have to download ultimate S?
 
Another thing I've been hearing about is "decompressing" m2t files to make them larger yet easier to work with, is this possible if so what do I need to do it?
 
Is all this native to Vegas or do I have to download ultimate S?
Click to expand...
It's a download. However, the same thing can be done with Vegas alone, you just have to do it manually. Take all your original NON-transcoded clips into one timeline, create regions for each clip, and batch render into something of offline quality. I like using just a normal standard def template. Edit your project with these offlines, and when you're ready to render, you manually go through the project media tab and "right click->replace" with the original versions of everything.
 
El Director said:
It's a download. However, the same thing can be done with Vegas alone, you just have to do it manually. Take all your original NON-transcoded clips into one timeline, create regions for each clip, and batch render into something of offline quality. I like using just a normal standard def template. Edit your project with these offlines, and when you're ready to render, you manually go through the project media tab and "right click->replace" with the original versions of everything.
Click to expand...

This is the EXTREMELY hard way to do it. I works, but I wouldn't recommend it. Instead of this method, try doing it this way:

1. Create a folder for your project. Create two subfolders, one called Original and one called proxy. Place your AVCD files in the Original folder

2. Use a batch conversion program like Prism, Super, or other to batch encoder to create small (DV sized) files with EXACTLY the same name as the originals. This is the default in most batch encoding programs so it's easy.

3. Rename the folder "Proxy" to "working". Open up Vegas point it to the "working" folder and begin your edit. Once your edit is complete, close Vegas. Rename "Working" to "Proxy". Rename "Original" to "Working" and re-open Vegas. Vegas does an automatic replacement of all your proxy media to the original source files. Now your edit is complete, but all in HD.

There are some gotchas to this method depending on how much work you've done in your editing. I would use this for "cuts-only", and would not do any titling, compositing, color grading or correction, or anything like that. I've used this method in the past when I needed to cut on my laptop at home. Because I had the proxies in a folder named the same thing on my laptop, all I had to do was transfer the small .veg file every day to keep both versions current. Worked like a charm.
 
bbinnard said:
Hey Perrone - nice to see you here. But can you explain what you mean by "do more damage in the long ruin"? I have only used native format input (1920 AVCHD from GH1) and, to my amateur eyes, have never seen a problem. Is there more going on with Vegas than is commonly known?
Click to expand...

If your workflow is simple enough so that you lay some source footage on the timeline, do some edits, maybe some color correction, render, and deliver, then you may never have a problem or see a problem.

If you ever work on projects that are large enough for you to have to render part of your timeline, and place that BACK on the timeline you might start seeing issues. Or if you have to render your work, pass off to someone else to do work, and have it come back, then you might start seeing issues. The more complex the workflow, the more you need to use a proper editing codec.

I'll avoid the technical discussions of 10bit vs 8bit codecs and all that, because it's not really relevant at this point. Just know that as your edits get more complex, the value of using a solid editing codec become greater and greater.
 
This is the EXTREMELY hard way to do it. I works, but I wouldn't recommend it. Instead of this method, try doing it this way:

1. Create a folder for your project. Create two subfolders, one called Original and one called proxy. Place your AVCD files in the Original folder

2. Use a batch conversion program like Prism, Super, or other to batch encoder to create small (DV sized) files with EXACTLY the same name as the originals. This is the default in most batch encoding programs so it's easy.

3. Rename the folder "Proxy" to "working". Open up Vegas point it to the "working" folder and begin your edit. Once your edit is complete, close Vegas. Rename "Working" to "Proxy". Rename "Original" to "Working" and re-open Vegas. Vegas does an automatic replacement of all your proxy media to the original source files. Now your edit is complete, but all in HD.

There are some gotchas to this method depending on how much work you've done in your editing. I would use this for "cuts-only", and would not do any titling, compositing, color grading or correction, or anything like that. I've used this method in the past when I needed to cut on my laptop at home. Because I had the proxies in a folder named the same thing on my laptop, all I had to do was transfer the small .veg file every day to keep both versions current. Worked like a charm.
Click to expand...

I was just pointing out a way to to it in Vegas alone. I currently use Adobe Media encoder for my offlines which saves some time on the front end. Quick question though-will Vegas automatically recognize the original files when they have a different extension than the offlines?
 
This is certainly one solution. The idea of the "original integrity and quality" of the video files is something of a misnomer depending on what camera was used to shoot the footage, and what the intermediate (proxy) is.

There are numerous ways to approach this problem and that should receive some careful consideration by the person making the decision.
Click to expand...

What I am refering to is that by using the proxies to do the "editing" then when the "editing" is finished, swap back to the source files and rednder for final output, you aren't transcoding the original files except for the final rendering. Also in our business, my wife is the "artistic" editor. She is not very computer tolerant. Telling her she may have to preview her work at less than full frame rate is not an option... :) Hence my decision to use DV proxies, rather than some other method like Cineform intermediaries. One batch transcode, all the original source files go back into the timeline when the project is complete.

No, this workflow is not convenient for group projects, and passing sections off for others to work on. But if you're doing smaller projects from start to finish, it has it's advantages.


Also, yes you can do everything that Ultimate S does, in Vegas, without Ultimate S, however there are so many time saving features in Ultimate S, that I think it is a great tool regardless of what workflow you choose. A few clicks to do a job, versus several minutes of poking, typing and clicking, well that's an individual choice.... A tool and die maker may have learned how to make a square hole in metal using a drill and a collection of small files, but in real life he's gonna get the square broach and make the square hole with one operation.... That's what Ultimate S is, a collecton of time savers. (And no I don't have any affiliation with VASST.)
 
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