Editing 24P with 60i

2

2000lux

Member
I have a client that has some footage already that's shot on a DVX at 24P in 16x9. We are thinking about shooting some more on a JVC GY-DV500 which is normal 60 interlaced fields, 29.7 frames per second.

Will she be able to mix both formats on the same time line in the same project, or can she only use one or the other?
 
capture the 24p material as regular NTSC 48KHZ 29.97 and you should be fine.
when you edit 24p in 24p 23.38 then you have problems.
 
Hrmmn. I don't know what mode she's been using. She's not an experience editor so I think she just puts the tape in and loads it up. My guess is that it's at the regular 30 frames rate then.

When she transfers the 24P footage in to her time line it takes a second to render. I don't know if it's because it's 24P or 16x9. Any ideas?
 
If it was shot in squeeze mode on the DVX and edited in a 4:3 sequence it will need rendering. 24p in a 29.97 timeline won't (unless the pulldown has been removed on capture ...)
 
Mixing the two different types of footage (IMO) depends on two things:

1) What mode was the 24p (regular or advanced), and

2) What look you are trying to achieve.

If you want to make the footage as seemless as possible, I would look towards converting the 60i footage to 24P (23.98) before editing it with the other footage. Thus I would:

Start a 24p project. If the original was 24p advanced, then import using the "Advanced (2:3:3:2) Pulldown Removal preset.

If the original was shot 24p regular, then I would make a 29.97 sequence, and use Graeme Nattress' standards conversion filter to make it 24p (23.98). I would also import the 60i footage into this sequence and use Graeme's Standard Conversion filter to change it to 24p.

Once everything was 24P, then I would edit it together on a 24P timeline/sequence.

Graeme Nattress' filters (which are the best value in an add on I've ever seen) can be found here:

http://nattress.com/


Now if the original footage was shot 24p regular and you don't mind(or are trying to achieve) the different "look" between the two different cadence footages (24p and 60i) then I would edit them together on a 29.97 timeline (no filtering or rendering should be necessary for the different cadences).
 
I'm still new to fcp, but I'm using fcp5 and I thought that you didn't need to use any filters for 24p normal to keep it's look? Is this the best, easisest and least complicated way to preserve the 24p look in fcp5, with the nattress filter? Is it the best choice to work in a 29.97 sequence with dvx100a 24p normal footage?
 
I'm still new to fcp, but I'm using fcp5 and I thought that you didn't need to use any filters for 24p normal to keep it's look?
Click to expand...

You are correct. When shooting 24p normal, you don't need to do anything to edit it in a 29.97 sequence. No filters, no nothing.

The advantage to editing in a 24P (23.98) sequence are that you use about 20% less space on a DVD (and can either fit more on the DVD, or use a higher bit rate for compression). The other big reason to use a 24P sequence is when you're going out to film.
 
so if i were to edit in a 23.98 sequence, would it look more film-like, or the same? does it require tweaking in addition to just doing it in that sequence?
 
so if i were to edit in a 23.98 sequence, would it look more film-like, or the same?
Click to expand...

Oh, no! The dreaded "film-like" question. :)

It will look pretty much the same whether you edit on a 24p timeline or a 29.97 timeline.

If you edit on a 24p timeline, then you either need to
a) output to a 24p DVD, which will add the extra frames to make it 29.97 on output to a TV, or
b) add pulldown in FCP while outputting to tape.

Either of the above returns your footage shot in 24p to a 29.97 cadence (the same way that films you see on TV have had frames added to make them conform to a 29.97 cadence).

If you leave 24p regular in a 29.97 sequence, then you may end up with a few more interlaced frames during your transitions, but it will basically look the same.

No extra tweaking is needed.

And finally, "film-like" or "film-look" has to do with a number of things, only one of which is the 24p cadence. But I'm sure you knew that.
 
natress filters are great. but compared to true 24p it's a disappointment. but the program is awesome. i use it all the time for adjusting gamma, colors and other great features.
then again, I like how Magic Bullet look suite preserves the video quality better.
 
Unless you have to go to film 29.97 is the more common combination.
if you have 24p just leave it as is and don't remove pulldown. Edit it directly with the 29.97 footage. If it's 24pa remove pulldown and then put normal pullodwn back in so you can edit with 29.97.

You can convert the 29.97 to 24fps but it's still a conversion process. (tiem to convert, loss of some quality)
24p in a 29.97 still appears as 24fps footage

if you're tryign to cram 2+ hours onto a DVD then 24fps will help but if you're forced to mix two formats 29.97 would probably be the best compromise.
 
I dis indeed know that film look has a lot more to do with than just 24p... I just wondered if editing in a 29.97 timeline somehow diminished it... So if it's all 24p normal to start with, then it's better to just do it in a 29.97 and tweak color etc with magic bullet? (read: natress would be redundant?) and I'm not mixing at all, it's all 24p normal, but I'd rather have quality than space on the dvd so...
 
I had a project where i shot 60i and 24pA( I customized all my 24p to 24pA just in case) and captured it regular NTSC 48khz and just edited them.
 
So, just to make sure I've got this right:

If the computer needs to render it, it was definitely shot in 16x9 squeeze mode?

I'm 90% sure it was shot in 29.7 frames per second with the gama set for video rather than film since this is being shot for TV and video distribution. She's a pretty new editor. I don't think she has installed any plug ins. I asked if she installed any thing to convert the 24P in any way and she said no.
 
Check the speed and settings in the camera by turning on all displays and running the tape.
You can check it in the timeline and stepping through.
Re-render means that either it has to do rendering for size/aspect conversion or the clip settings don't match the sequence settings. Check both in the project wwindow (fps, size, etc)
 
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