ECO Punch PLUS LED Light

David W. Jones said:
Yes and at the low price of $8500 everyone can afford to add 3 or 4 to their kit.
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Dont think the purpose of this is to just get people to buy it. If Arri came out with a... say 18k HMI Mk II, it would still be great to know. I'd love to rent this if it was available, looks like it has a nice kick to it, but I'd have to compare specs. If what they say is true, that its brighter than a 2500w HMI, then thats pretty badass! Considering powering a 2500w itself is a pain, and the rental price would be at least 3 times more, I'd pick up 4 of the daylight ones and that itself is pretty good for some night time scenes

Thanks Bruce for the info, Im hoping to see these in nearby rental houses :)
 
4.044 fc's at 10 ft looks mighty impressive but I guess that is at the narrowest angle and without any filters. I wish the distance measurements can be made at the common 1 meter settings for comparison purposes . Mighty hard to calculate the fc's equivalent at 1 meter from 10 feet as the light increase is not linear. That 5.1 amp draw, from 120 or 240 V ac ? Watts would be more informative. That would mean approx 600W at 120 vac as I would not think that drew that amperage at 220 ac. What is the CRI ? how about actual beamshots off a flat white wall rather than trees and buildings. Someone spending that kind of dough would need more detailed specs. I imagine.
 
Norman99 said:
4.044 fc's at 10 ft looks mighty impressive but I guess that is at the narrowest angle and without any filters. I wish the distance measurements can be made at the common 1 meter settings for comparison purposes . Mighty hard to calculate the fc's equivalent at 1 meter from 10 feet as the light increase is not linear. That 5.1 amp draw, from 120 or 240 V ac ? Watts would be more informative. That would mean approx 600W at 120 vac as I would not think that drew that amperage at 220 ac. What is the CRI ? how about actual beamshots off a flat white wall rather than trees and buildings. Someone spending that kind of dough would need more detailed specs. I imagine.
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The more detailed web page is here. But in general the calculations would be using the inverse square law 'backwards', and so at 1 meter, the footcandles would be approximately 9x the fc value at 10 feet, which would be 36K fc. with rounding for convenient calculations...

The web page also give s diagrams of the fc values at various distances for various lenses with 15, 30, and 55 degree lenses.

But at 5 amps, and 'household power'... with availability via renting... looks like a create light for those 'power light' needs...
 
certainly is punchy...

i'm currently tinkering with a 100w led which may be about the equivalent to a 100w hmi, and if it works well enough i can scale it up pretty much to any size. So far it's quite fun DIYing with them, and they do have some interesting challenges to overcome, like focusing, CRI, and array projecting. but i'm taking it step by step to see what's possible.

if anyone can recommend some ways to properly test either/both the lux/cri of what i'm working with, that would be a great help once i start trying it out.
 
I was at the recent CineGear, & there are numerous incredibly bright LED fixtures coming to market, but I imagine they'll all be pricey.
 
Darren, using single high power(100w) led is really not the way to get the most efficient use of large die led emitters. Lumens per watt of less than 40 are typical from them high wattage large die leds when driven at 100 W. Cree does indeed lead the pack as far as eficiency is concerned. Rather than have a single 100 watt led that also has a high vf (forward voltage) spec, why not use two 6 V fv rated leds that draw 24 watts at 4 amps and will surely output more lumens than a single 100 W one. The 2 leds will draw 48 watts. Check out the Cree MTG-2
available in 2700 and 3000K at 90+ CRI and 4000, 5000K at 85CRI. You really want to DIY a seriously bright 90+ CRI, just configure one using 12 MTG-2's wired in a 3S2P ( 3 series 2 parallel) X2 configuration feeding from a pair of constant current buck drivers. The main concern is thermal management which can either be addressed with a sufficiently large heat sink or a smaller footprint with a silent fan. Beam angle desired can easily be achieved with the Ledil Minie series of reflectors made specifically for the MTG.
As a rough calculation, underdriving the MTG-2's at 3 amps rather than the 4 amp max. will get them running much cooler and also have a higher lumen to watt ratio.
Each 3 amp series string will draw 54 watts ( 18V X 3A) and the entire lamp will draw 54W X by 4 strings = 216 watts, add approximately another 40 watts for driver inneficiency and you have a net draw of about 260 watts. Lumens ( depending on reflector chosen) say a medium beam angle will be appoximately 1500lumens X 2 (reflector factor) X 12 leds = 36,000 lumens or approx 3,200 fc (foot candles) give or take a few , at 3 ft. distance. If you really want to rock the boat with sheer brightness, couple them with narrow beam TIR reflectors also from Ledil and get your lux values into the 6 figures.MTG-2's are not yet currently available but the regular Hi-CRI MTG's are.
 
i appreciate the thoughts norman!

there are a few reasons i chose to start testing with high wattage single die grid packages, the main reason is double shadows which you can get from using multiple packages, especially with each thier own lens. the other was that i'm looking to get as close to hotlight response as possible, and an array just doesn't look like what i want. that could change, but so far putting this together is somewhat promising. the chip currently in there is 30-36v @ 2.8A, and has a claimed efficacy of 90-100 and CRI of ~87. now, i'll be the first to turn a skeptical eye to either of those figures, but it was worth trying out being that it was not an expensive chip. i almost went with a bridgelux 90w chip, which they produce in various Kelvins, CRIs, and voltages. but i figured i would rather use the chinese chips to start with just in case i break/burn them out i wont care as much, and switching a new chip in is not a big deal as i'm using all quick disconnects and somewhat modular assembling.

i've actually tried emailing CREE a few times but they never respond, which turned me off quite a bit, on the other hand, bridgelux have been extreeeemly helpful, so i'm leaning towards them for the next step. they have chips in the 115 lumens per watt range at 70 CRI(not ideal), but also 80CRI chips at around 80-95lpw, and also 90CRI in the 78-81lpw range. the tricky thing is im leaning towards HMI style lighting and hence leaning towards daylight balance, but all of thier 90CRI chips are 3000K or below. if CREE ever responds i'll see what they can offer

there is one company which takes the raw dies and makes some seriously high output packages, the largest of which is 1kw. that one however seems impractical due to the cost (over $2K, as well as the cooling needs.

it's a work in progress, i just got the barn doors, onboard voltmeter, and ac power socket in today. waiting on the new led driver and fan driver and i'll have a working concept to start playing around with.
 
As leds go, the lumens per watt specifications are usually at the lower current range where the efficasy is the greatest. For example, the Cree XM-L emitter which is the most efficient to date, shows a high lumen value of over 125 lumens per watt when driven at say 350 milliamps as spec'd. If that led was driven to it's max current 3Amp ( 3000 ma), then the lumen per watt figure would drop in a non linear fashion to around 65 to 75 lumens per watt. CRI is also something which I myself would prefer not to base my decision just by the high number alone. I have built/tested/prototyped led on-camera units using Cree's XP-G's and XM-L's in the lower CRI (80 to 85) range and discovered that they perform far better than others that claim over 90 CRI. Yes, I know there is a gap or discontinuous curve inherent in all leds as far as the color spectrum is concerned, but in my application as on-camera video lights, I find it negligible and my priority is face colors and white objects as rendered as white. One can be picky as far as perfect colors, but the end product must always be viewed on a lcd/tube/led monitor or telly. How are those colors adjusted by the viewer??. We are our own critics when it comes to perfection. I have done many weddings, and trust me, the bride really wants her dress to show the true shade of white and face colors to be right on. The led units I made are 3200K 85 CRI and awaiting for the soon to be released 90+CRI of the newest versions. I doubt the 90+ CRI's will show better whites or reds, but whatever the improvement will probably be minor. If one really wants a continuous spectrum, then perhaps for now the tungsten filament along with it's power hungry requirements is the way to go unless one wants to wait for the LEP's to appear in the future. I can understand the multitude of led units that display the green spike as being of the cheap
mass produced, disposable units, but one gets what one pays for. Led emitters have improved dramatically over the past couple of years, but most manufacturers still opt to use the multi led panel arrays. Specs of course will always be exagerrated by many mfr's, but thorough side by side comparisons and honest photometric evaluation would be welcome in the final decision of choosing. Let the best lamp win.
 
Darren, all things pertaining to LED's, technical, custom mods, newest available and retrofitting etc. can be found best by being a member of CPF ( CandlePowerForums ). I am a member there and it is a treasuretrove of information.
Check out their special application lighting section where you can get fast answers by knowledgeable members ( they have leds in their blood). You do not have to be a member to browse but it's free and well worth it.
Have you seen the new Cree XPG-2's and the MTG-2 ? now that's what I'm talkin' about.
 
With the claim that this light is more powerful than a 2500w hmi it would seem that its a huge breakthru for LEDs. Its also cheaper, lighter(no ballast), draws far less power, built in dimmer, and no bulbs to replace. Keeping in mind that this the first LED of this size, the future looks pretty interesting in lighting.
 
Leds, and he most efficient out there are really around 6 X more efficient than the common filament bulb. Beam angle is the determining factor ( and most often misunderstood) that ups the lux/lumen/fc/brightness/intensity/
value by a HUGE margin. The more the beam narrows, the brighter the light at that lit surface. Notice the photometric fc (foot candle) value at 10 feet. Over 4000 fc's. Wow and good, BUT what is the beam angle when that was measured ????. I would say very narrow or spotty and 5400K or bluish at that. Notice also the FC value at the SAME 10 feet distance gets cut down to size when the beam is widened up a bit to a more commonly used 55 degrees ( flood, diffused, key or main light) to a value of 216 FC. A big drop from 4000+ FC's at the narrow end of it. Now take that 216FC at 10 feet and try on a 3200K gel/filter on for size and you will end up with around 140 FC at best. 140FC's at 10 feet is approximately (140/.092 ) or 1521 luxes. Those 1521 luxes at the standard ( if a standard exists at this point in time) 3 feet or 1 meter distance, roughly equates to 18000 lumens. That would be in the area of a 1200 watt tungsten unfrosted filament. The filament would draw 1200 watts of power and the led ( for the SAME color temperature and beam angle) would draw 4.8 amps( on the specs) X 120V AC (they didn't mention at what voltage but I assume at 120 AC) = 576 watts. Slightly less than half power draw from a filament. Just comparing apples to apples. Sure, I would imagine that it is more powerful( light intensity wise) than a 2500W HMI, as long as that HMI must have (or be measured at) the SAME narrow beam angle of the LED without ang filtration or diffusers. Hmmm. my .02 as usual..
 
I have an 1800watt ARRI M18 HMI and the AAdyntech Punch Plus is definitely not more powerful than it. Did a side to side comparison with both set to flood. The HMI was obviously much brighter.
 
M18 flooded at 15ft is 600fc (1.2 is 380fc), while Punch Plus (with 30 degrees diffuser) is 390fc.
So it seems the light is closer to 1.2 than anything else.
 
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