eBay and "Net 30"

adamr316

adamr316

Well-known member
Man, someone on craigslist just brought up an excellent point and I wanted to expand on it.

As per usual someone is lowballing photographers in my area. Something like $10 per house for professional real estate photography. And they pay AFTER you send your photos to them.

Someone replied to that ad listing (which the original lowballers were flagged and removed) and said that you don't send your merchandise first before an eBay buyer pays, do you?

And that got me thinking. Why do freelancers accept this Net 30 day bull sh*t? We hand over the tape and then we have to wait 4 weeks to get paid? Why do people agree to this sort of arrangement?

When I sell stuff on eBay that's worth less than $100 I'd balk at the idea if someone asked me to send the item before they mailed the check or PayPal'd me the monies. But the standard practice that many of us (myself included) never flinch at is mailing a tape to a company or handing a tape over on-the-spot to a producer/director/whomever is paying the (eventual) bucks before a single dime is sent.

So I've gotta ask...WTF is wrong with us?
 
Because it's how professional services are bartered. If you don't like it, just don't accept it. Just realize that you're likely to alienate some corporate clients with it.

Personally, I'm perfectly happy with Net 30s. For a couple clients that have issues paying on time, I've switched them to a Net 15 (chronically late, if I give them a net 30, they'll always be 60 days out, if I give them a net 15, they'll always be 30 days out). I don't really mind floating expenses for 30 days, just consider it the cost of doing business.
 
Big business makes big money by collecting intrest on other people's money. Net 90 is quickly becoming the norm. You'll notice banmks like to collect intrest on other people's money when you deposit the check, even though validating it is now a real time deal. They'll hold it for more than a week... just to collect intrest on your money.
Why do we agree to net 30? Because unemplyment is a drag.
Now I do charge intrest. I have never agreed to the whole 90 day net thang. That'sa late invoice and I don't mind sending a second one with intrest added.
 
Ever hear the phrase "sequential liability" when asking a client where your (past 30 days) money is?

That's a cute term invented to describe the condition that exists when your client hasn't been paid yet by their client for the job YOU worked on. I regularly have to wait close to 60 days to get paid and I've heard of shooters being hired partially on the basis of them accepting 90 days payment.

The other thing that infuriates me is I work for producers who are lax in demanding payment, so they make me wait to get paid until they are paid. Sometimes they do the right thing and just pay me in a timely manner even before they get paid which is what I do 90% of the time for my crew.

On large jobs, I require 1/2 up front and then the remainder when the job is delivered - or within 30 days of delivery (whichever comes first).

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Terms of payment depend on the client and type of job.

If you have shot, edited etc. for a client previously, and KNOW they are a solid company, then I will accept NET 30.

If I am only shooting ( NO EDITING) for a new client, then I let them know UP FRONT, that payment is due in full on the day of the shoot.

If shooting & editing, (FOR A NEW CLIENT) I let them know payment is due in full before they get the finished product. - NO EXCEPTIONS.

Mercedes-Benz had hired me to script-shoot and edit a 30 sec spot. When they stated they pay NET 30, I agreed, thinking there is no way, Mercedes is not going to pay me. 30 days - no payment, 60 days - no payment. I called the GM, and asked when could I expect payment on the invoice. GM - " You should have been paid on that already, I'll check into it"
90 days - NO PAYMENT! I did however get very lucky. They wanted me to do another spot. I agreed, scripted, shot, edited....THEN HELD IT FOR RANSOM! They paid immediately for BOTH spots.

I have been burned too many times from BIG companies as well as SMALL companies..makes no difference. Especially in today's tough economy, one can expect to be bilked if you let them.
 
what do you guys do if they have paid up front for the shoot but don't like the out come... do you re- shoot free of charge?... or do you spend some of your own time and money on a re- shoot?
 
If I am doing a shoot..let's say for a 30 sec spot. Then someone from either the advertising agency or the client is on location and I ask what shots they want, then shoot them. If they don't like it later, then we will have to reschedule a re-shoot, but at my Day Rate. No Freebies. I have had only one client in 15 years ever want to do a re-shoot.

If I have total creative control, and the client didn't like what I put together, then of course I would make it right for them. However, that to has never happened. The reason being, when I take on a project like that, I communicate with the client over all details, so I know well before I say "ACTION" exactly what the clients needs are.

Perhaps you are having a tough time in thinking that it's not alright to ask for the money upfront..believe me it is alright to ask. Especially if the client is new to you, or maybe too small in scope.

My philosophy is this - The client needs your services. - Your services cost money. - If the client balks at having to pay some or all when services are rendered, then the percentages of getting paid later are not very high.
 
The only time I've ever not charged for a reshoot was because of a mistake of my own. Otherwise, they'll pay day rate or some derivation thereof.
 
I hear what your saying but in business that's how things works, I guess.

Your not obliged to give 30 days credit but most people do. I've had one production company stating on their PO to me that their terms of payment are 60 days. I raised this point with the producer saying that was their terms and not mine and after all it's my services they are using and I'm not obliged to give them any credit. Needless to say, It fell on deaf ears and I try not to work for them too much these days.

If I haven't worked for someone and don't know their track record I request that payment be made up front. 99% of them are OK with this.

If it's a bigger budget job like over $20,000 I request at least half up front (to cover any running costs) and the final payment on delivery.
 
Burn2Earn pro. said:
what do you guys do if they have paid up front for the shoot but don't like the out come... do you re- shoot free of charge?... or do you spend some of your own time and money on a re- shoot?
Click to expand...

I have never heard of anyone failing to such an extent. I would think hawking some gear and getting a job is the best solution.
Some things should be able to be taken for granted. Shooting the production getting paid to shoot is one of them.
 
Kidster said:
Perhaps you are having a tough time in thinking that it's not alright to ask for the money upfront..believe me it is alright to ask. Especially if the client is new to you, or maybe too small in scope.

My philosophy is this - The client needs your services. - Your services cost money. - If the client balks at having to pay some or all when services are rendered, then the percentages of getting paid later are not very high.
Click to expand...


I think you nailed it for my situation, Kidster. For any new clients I'm going to ask for money upfront. I've been burned with late payments from "one-off clients" one too many times. The last shoot I did was a corporate one and I think it was some of my best camera work (for a corporate, heh.) And....45 days later....still no check.
 
If you want your cash flow to improve do this:

Have a rate card spelling out all the services you provide. Make your rates a little higher based on a NET 30 payment. Then have a discount to a lower rate if they pay when services are rendered. Tell the new customers after they agree to your discounted rate and book you for the shoot "would you like for me to fax the invoice so I can get the check the day we shoot"

Also, if it is a large job, definitely get 50% of the total upfront ( to cover your upfront expenses) the other 50% due upon delivery.

Your cash flow will get much better. And if you do any more work for those clients paying slow, bump up the rate if you are willing to wait on the check. Or if you are timid, and afraid to ask for quicker payment..tell them you have a new (phantom) partner and he/she says these are our new terms of payment.
 
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