Dynamic Range of Super 16

D

DDirector

Veteran
I'm not sure what brand of film we shoot on, I think its Fujifilm, but we are shooting Super16 now, so it could be something else.

I just wanted to know what would be the dynamic range of the film.

Let's say someone is exposed at t5.6, how much higher/lower can I expose for?

If I need more info on the film stock, ill ask tomorrow.
 
It really depends on the characteristics curve of your film stock. Without knowing that, all I can say is that you can probably go 2-3 stops over or under; that's how most color negative film is. This refers more to latitude than dynamic range though.
 
DDirector said:
I'm not sure what brand of film we shoot on, I think its Fujifilm, but we are shooting Super16 now, so it could be something else.

I just wanted to know what would be the dynamic range of the film.

Let's say someone is exposed at t5.6, how much higher/lower can I expose for?

If I need more info on the film stock, ill ask tomorrow.
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I dont think this question has been phrased very well and I dont think the first answer you got is very helpful or correct.

What are you trying to work out because dynamic range is not a latitude to over or under expose as in "get it wrong"?
 
Shooter said:
I dont think this question has been phrased very well and I dont think the first answer you got is very helpful or correct.

What are you trying to work out because dynamic range is not a latitude to over or under expose as in "get it wrong"?
Click to expand...

I don't think I ever heard 'dynamic range' specifically in terms of film film, until recent years... 'density' was probably the term used, relative to negatives, and a densitometer... Reflectance
for prints, and since I didn't do film film movies (or slide stills for that matter...).. I could only conjectture that transmittance would be the term for film positives...

Latitude was in reference to a given film stock, and how much exposure that the film stock could allow before there was no change in density... (or at least too dense for useful/quality work...).

So one would say that Tri-X had more latitude for "over" exposure, than Plus-X, because Plus-X blocked up the highlights at the 'same' over exposure... One would also talk about 'contrasty' films, such as Plus-X and Panatomic-X... vs. Tri-X...).

Of course over exposure was compensated by under developing...

And all this was in terms of the print as the viewable result. So mapping 10 or so stops worth of exposure in the negative to 7 or so stops in the print, always involved some sort of compromise.

And further, positive film had less latitude than negative film.

In any case, one would have to find the manufacturer's spec sheet on the film, look at the density curve, and determine what the 'latitude' may be... well... other than hearing something from the guy behind the counter...

These days with digital I guess the term dynamic range makes better sense but still the questions are:

How do I adequately present a 10 stop 'dynamic range' of a scene, as measured with a light meter, with a camera that records perhaps 5-6 stops of dynamic range representation, and then display it on a display that has perhaps 4 stops of dysplay dynamic range... (assuming not everyone has broadcast quality displays for viewing internet fare...)

(I think the secret handshake words on ordinary consumer displays is 'contrast ratio'... or something like that...).
 
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color neg stock has a "DR" of 13 to 14 stops, normally processed. See some of the recent camera "shoot outs" done with the ASC and Zacuto. But in film terms it contrast range. And that's of actual info on the negative. Not necessarily real detail, and not necessarily what you can actually see when broadcast. It takes a good telecine operator to get that out. Your question was exposing someone at 5.6, but that depends on skin tone (dark or light). So, assuming a middle grey exposure at 5.6, you should be able to hit about f/22 (4 stops over) before that becomes unrealistically blown out.
 
Lattitude/Dynamic Range... yeah, im confused.

The only info I could get about the film stock is...
Fujifilm Vivid 500, 8647 3200K

photomb said:
color neg stock has a "DR" of 13 to 14 stops, normally processed. So, assuming a middle grey exposure at 5.6, you should be able to hit about f/22 (4 stops over) before that becomes unrealistically blown out.
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Wait. You said 13-14 stops. but yet you should not go beyond 4 stops over/under?
 
To come to an understanding about dynamic range of a negative or a digital sensor...you shoot a gray scale which you light perfectly. (eg flat)

You expose it perfectly using a waveform monitor for digital ...or for film, an incident light meter... or a spotmeter off the standard grey chip ( 18% refelectance)

The resulting image of the scale should be a full range from Shadow to highlight ( ire pure white to pure black)

Next you bracket the exposures at 1 stop increments from the camera.

You now can see the effect of exposure and latitude because of the shift in the tones on the gray scale.

As you shift the exposure you will notice what crushes or burns out and you can then start to unders tand the DR.

Next time do the same with a color chip card and notice the effect on hue.

I do not like the terms "under or over exposure". They are confusing and both mean an "error" to me because I do not know what the exposure is relative to.

I prefer to think of where in the grey scale I will EXPOSE a specific tone in the image at. eg the skin tone will be EXPOSED at 2 stops above or below the background which is EXPOSED at f5.6

So what I am saying is ...I primarily look at the D.R of a scene as lit and bring it into control to suit the media ( film or digital) and I expose all in the scene to fit that.
 
DDirector said:
Lattitude/Dynamic Range... yeah, im confused.

The only info I could get about the film stock is...
Fujifilm Vivid 500, 8647 3200K



Wait. You said 13-14 stops. but yet you should not go beyond 4 stops over/under?
Click to expand...

Here's what I think of when I hear 'over/under'... camera guy standing at the lab counter... camera guy says to the lab guy, "I just shot my film at f/5.6, but my meter reading was for f/11, but I goofed and set it to 5.6. Can I get something usable out of the shot?"... Lab guy says, "Well the latitude of your film indicates you should have something, but I'll have to charge you for special processing and cut the development time to account for the 2 stops of 'over exposure'".

Alternatively... camera guy to lab guy... "I was out on a shoot, a beach shoot, and the range of the exposure was 10 stops from shadow to highlight, can my negative be saved". Lab guy responds, with "With the film you used, I can cut the development time by 3 stops, but that may affect other values in your scene, and I'll charge you for the special processing." Camera guy responds with, "Well I'm desperate, so do it."

The usual advice in these cases is to 'be more careful with setting the camera up'... and 'well, if you have a high contrast beach shoot, figure out some way to cut the contrast in the shot'...

But with 'latitude' a negative film can 'save' the day some times...

In terms of modern technology, since I've not shot movie film, I don't know exactly how the digitization process accounts for things. The question here is at what density in the negative does the 'scan' result in a 0 value digitally, and since 'film base + fog' will 'read' at maximum digitized value... one has 0-256, or 0-1024, or 0-4096, steps given 8, 10, or 12 for bit depth. (Technically perhaps the 'max' value is set to something less than max bit count value... but in any case, there is a range for the digitized values, which may not be able to 'capture' a negative that is too dense.).

In terms of 'stops', 256 corresponds to 8 'stops', 1024 -> 10 stops and 4096 -> 12 stops... again, everything that is on the 'negative' side, needs to thought of in terms of the presentation side. So, having something that has 12 stops of 'negative/Digital Intermediary', has to be thought of in terms of the LCD, Big Screen, etc, that may only have 7 stops worth of effective display capability.

For still photography, this would often involve 'burning' and 'dodging' the during print exposure. In the modern world of Digital, this would involve some sort of masking of regions and selective 'adjustments' to bring the region into a displayable form.
 
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