DVX100A or PD170

P

permartinengman

Member
Me and my girlfriend are making an independant fiction movie. We are going to buy:

Panasonic DVX100A (PAL) or

Sony PD170 (PAL)

We were going to buy the Panasonic because of the new system that is much more cinema-like, but we found out that if you use this system you can't make fast movements with the camera, or have people make rapid movements in the scene, everything has to be very slow if you want the image to be smoth. If you want to be able to move a little bit faster you have to set the shuttle speed faster but then you will need proffessional lighting otherwise everything goes black.

We are making a more dogma- like movie, we want to be able to improvise. What I understand, when you are filming with regular SP, the both cameras are about equal. So then we can just aswell buy the Sony.

I want to know if I am right about the Panasonic or if you can make movements with the 24 progresive smoth.

???
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

the motion rendering is the same as with a film camera.. so if you think that films have smooth motion,, then the answer is yes.. you can do it. but just as a word of advice.. you dont play with your shutter speed to accomodate for motion on a camera.. you cahnge the type of motion you are doing.. and the speed of it, and other things to compensate. ..using a higher shutter speed is always going to give you jerkier motion on playback..espescially when movement is used..

why dont you watch some of the films here in the screengrabs section and see if they are smooth enough to your tatse.. but again..i pends the operator. like i said its the same as a film camera. so if you learn hoe to run it well, youll be fine.
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

Thank you for your advice

I have looked at some of the screen grabs and I must say that I find the sceens shot whith regular SP 30p smother that those that I have seen shot with the progressive scan. But I will keep investigating. I am afraid that it might be to difficulte for us to film with the DVX100 24 progressive, like I said we want to be able to improvise.
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

? when you say as compared to a 30p camera.... are you actually talking about a 30p (as in 30fps progressive camera) or are you talking about a 30i/60i camera (as in a regular 60 interlaced fields per sec/30 interlaced frames per sec camera.. )

by the way.. the dvx switches between shooting 60i/30i and 30p and 24p in regular and advanced modes. so the camera shoots any way you want it to.. if yuo dont want to use the 24p,, just switch to a different mode.. but its sort of rediculous to not get a cam the just cant do any of that. the dvx in regular 30i mode is still probably the best noe out there, and in 30p,, its by far the best in its class.. so if your afraid to go into the 24p modes..just dont use them till your ready.. :)
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

I think I ment 30i, I am a bit of a "trainee" so far.

You are right in the way that if I want to make another project later and use the 24p, I have that choice. (I understand that you can't mix the two modes together in the same film)

The sony does better low light recording thoe, a little bit better than the Panasonic.

The reason why we are not sure is that we know that the sony is a good camera. The Panasonic is still very new, now it's like a trend, everybody buys it and maybe in a couple of months errors with this camera will be discovered.

On the other hand I know that there has been a lot of talk about bugs with the sound for the pd170, do you know if the sound for the dvx100 is better?
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

the dvx100 is a couple years old now actually.. the new "a"version has been out for going on a half year almost.. its pretty clean in its operation. the dvx100a hsa the best onboard sound and video signal processing of any camera in the class or pricerange, and even some above it.. and it has about 98% of the ability of the sony in low light when comparing apples to apples and you have both in the 30i mode(the sony doesnt have any other mode..) so id hardly make my choice based on that.. the opther abiliities of the dvx FAR surpass that of the sony. even just using 30p gives you way higher resolution.. its really a very easy choice for people in the know.. i realize that your trying to make an informed decision here. but all i can say is the personally as someon who knows alot of the ins and outs of the whole messed up shabang, is this.. i own a dvx.. i laugh at other cameras. theres really no comparison. to buy anything else would be like buying a sheep to ride in a horse race. when the horse is about the same price. panasonic literlly revolutionized independent film and videomaking with the cam, not in the way that things are done, but in what abilities the filmmiaker has in a camera. it actually competes with much higher pricepoint cams, and in the hands of a skilled filmmaker, it can pretty much takes the place of a super 16 film camera(minus the grain). i really dont have time to sing all the praises, but take a look at some of the high end work being don with it.. how many tv shows and mtv videos are shot on pd170s.. it took the cniematography award at this years sundance film fest.. look at the number of real pros on this site vs sites for the pd170 or canon cams.. im not being critical of the people that use the other cams.. im just stating the facts. there just is no comparison.. most people who dont get it , only do so because they are unfamiliar with what 24p ,30p, and cinegamma and every other bonus feature of it..are and are all about. basically im saying they probably dont have a clue.. i just dont see how they could and still get a different cam.. unless they need the longer lense for somthing.. but even still.. it really seriously boggles my mind. but dont take my word for it.. just have a look at the board here.. and how many times the whole dvx vs any other cam in the range has come up.. its just not even a serious question anymore.. :)
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

the pal version is 25p and 50i only
if your film going to be shot in complitly ddarkness the pd-is better with hi gain (less grain)
but for normal conditions the dvx bit ashit the sony for all parameters
the
the sound of panasonic supirior ( the sony is good casset recorder and the dvx is almost digi beta :-))
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

[quote author=oleg link=board=Links;num=1085421889;start=0#6 date=05/24/04 at 13:23:32]the dvx bit ashit the sony for all parameters
[/quote]

Totally agree. :D
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

OK thank you for your advices, we will see what we are going to do. At least I know how you feel about it. (you=most people)
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

Well look at it like this...

You state you and your girl want to do an inde-film. The key word here is FILM.

Do you want it to look filmic (as close to being shot on film as possible) or do you want it to look like it was shot on a Video camera (News, soap operas).
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

And, once you make up your mind about that question, keep in mind that the Sony can only do the Video look, whereas the DVX can do both.
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

That, and the low-light difference is pretty much meaningless. If you're shooting a film, you're carefully controlling the light anyway. You're not shooting in the dark for dark scenes; you're shooting to make it LOOK dark, but with with plenty of light. Plenty enough so that the tiny advantage the PD-170 has is rendered moot. It's an art. It's a science. It's a craft.
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

Yeah, whats up with this whole low-light thing? What are you shooting? A spelunking expedition?
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

Honestly, if you shoot low light, *and* interlaced, guaranteed it looks like Uncle Joe's home movie. And if you're going with a lighting set-up, then why not also go with the 24P, and make it look entirely like a movie, rather than a well lit video.

If you're making a movie, you'll want the DVX...trust us ;D
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

It looks like you may actually want to look into this video stuff some more. Read about the technical side of video first and learn all of the basics because that will help you understand what you personally need for your projects. The DVX can do what the PD170 can do (better mind you), and much, TONS more! Buy the DVX100a, you will be more then happy with your decision! I promise you.
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

But if I want the "film-look" I have to film in the 24p mode. I can't film with the panasonic 30i (SP) mode and acspect to get a cinema sensation.

We have already filmed some scenes whith a pd170, just a few- if nesscesary we'll redo them. You can't mix the SP-mode and the 24 progressive, right.
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

There's only one case in which I'd recommend the 170 over the DVX, and even then it'd be a close call. If you NEVER want to do anything "filmic" or make a movie, you don't necessarily care about obtaining the highest quality images, you are a run and gunner, you care more about being able to quickly capture a shot as opposed to capturing a good shot, you don't care about camera settings and will leave evreything in AUTO most of the time. Then maybe the 170 is for you. Otherwise, I don't see how one can make a case that the 170 is a better fit.
 
Re: DVX100A or PD170

[quote author=permartinengman link=board=Links;num=1085421889;start=15#15 date=05/24/04 at 18:37:33]But if I want the "film-look" I have to film in the 24p mode. I can't film with the panasonic 30i (SP) mode and acspect to get a cinema sensation.

We have already filmed some scenes whith a pd170, just a few- if nesscesary we'll redo them. You can't mix the SP-mode and the 24 progressive, right.

[/quote]

You might look at the DVFilm software rather than reshooting. I hear it does a very good job, albeit software derived 24P, but might work for you... Just something to consider for a very good price. I am considering purchasing it, so I can take some of my DVC200 footage into a 24P timeline. I need to do some tests first though...

Andrew
Crystal Clear Media
 
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