DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

B

Barry_Green

Moderator
Had a chance this weekend to shoot with the mini35 on the DVX100, as well as compare it against the CineAlta with the Pro35, the JVC HD1 with and without the mini35, and the PD150 with the mini35, and the DVX100 with the anamorphic adapter, and 35mm film. and S16 film...

...unfortunately we couldn't get a mini35 adapter for the XL1 in time, so that kind of dashed my hopes for the main comparison: how much does the DVX's fixed lens interfere with the image from the mini35, vs. how much does the better CCD's and pro-scan overcome, vs. the XL1s. But it was not to be, so I'll have to conduct that test some day in the future. We also ran out of time so I only got a couple of shots on 35mm, none on S16, and for the actual shoot we didn't hook the mini35 up to the JVC, we just shot it with its stock lens.

In the meantime, let me just say this about the mini35 on the DVX: IT ROCKS. As far as clarity and sharpness, there's no appreciable loss -- I mean, there may be, but the results of the DVX (even with its fixed lens) on the mini35 are just stellar.

We used Zeiss UltraSpeeds on the CineAlta so I also used them for some test shots on the mini35. We had to ship the UltraSpeeds back before shooting the commercial with the mini35, so I used my Zeiss still-camera lenses with a Contax adapter. They're quite a bit slower (f/1.8 to f/2.8 max aperture) vs. the UltraSpeeds (typically f/1.2 or f/1.3) so you need a lot more light, but other than that, the image was 99% as good!

Here's a sample clip -- no shallow DOF in this one, but it's the first one I digitized and uploaded, so you can get an idea of what a 24PA/DVX/mini35 can do:

Windows Media Player, small file, for streaming on computer:
http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVXMini35PanShot24P.wmv
(remember this will be much darker than the "real" video)

If you've got time to download it, here's the .AVI, a large file, for downloading and playing through your camcorder (so you can see what it REALLY looks like):
http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVXMini35PanShot24P.avi
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

Barry

Wow!  Thanks for the clip.  You are a great resource to this forum (I am the sponge and I am listening and learning from all of you).  It is just plain awesome that you put out the information that you do and that you take the time to articulate everything.  Thanks!

By the way, I love your garage.

:)
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

The WMV plays fine on my Mac. You probably need to download Windows Media Player 9. It's probably easier to find it on versiontracker.com than Microsoft's site.
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

FYI, VLC (also on versiontracker.com) plays a lot of WMV and ASF files (though not this particular one) if you don't like using MS stuff. It also plays a lot of AVIs Quicktime can't.
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

ls.Barry.. that is just stupid sic. you shooting some baby commercials with that Ferno?
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

That is sic. Damn, I even called my wife in on that one. She was like "How do pick that up?"

I was like "You don't"
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

Yeah, it's tough to move that -- the lens itself has a tripod mount on it, you have to use two tripods with that rig. The 300mm is the same way. You don't pick it up easily!

I rarely ever use those lenses, I bought 'em mainly to complete the collection. With the 500 it's SOOOO telephoto that it's so sensitive that if someone in the next county sneezes it'll make the image bounce! But they sure look good in the pictures! The cool lens is the 8mm, that makes total MTV rap video-looking pictures. Check out this shot:
http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVXMini35-8mm.jpg

Actually, here are some stills with various lenses, pointing at roughly the same subject. People gripe about the 10:1 zoom range. With these shots, I went from 8mm to 500mm, which is a 62:1 range! (not zoom though, of course)...

8mm: http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVXMini35-8mmB.jpg
80mm: http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVXMini35-80mm.jpg
500mm: http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVXMini35-500mm.jpg
(oh, and with the mini35 you MUST turn off image stabilization or it actually makes the ground glass float around... kind of cool looking but definitely not usable, so no help from OIS either!)
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

Holly crap! What a setup! Those primes must cost a Fooooooortune! :-X

I'm speechless... ::)
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

Man! It makes you wonder if shooting with a DVX is actually worth it? Isn't it like putting a Lamborgini engine in a Volkswagen New Bettle? Wouldn't getting an SDX900 be a better choice to balance things out... so to speak.
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

They used to drop porsche engines in VW's all the time... and adding those lens, well, need some ECU's? need depth? you get the idea.
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

the two companies where very close at one point... I actually saw a VW bus with a 911 engine in it about 10 years ago. That was a little ridiculous.
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

[quote author=Flintstone link=board=news;num=1069887552;start=0#11 date=11/27/03 at 03:31:09]Holly crap!  What a setup!  Those primes must cost a Fooooooortune!  :-X

I'm speechless...  ::)[/quote]

The UltraSpeeds we used do indeed cost a fortune. But the lenses I show in the pictures there aren't that much, really, thanks to ebay -- about $300-$400 each. And some of the shorter focal lengths, like the 35mm and 50mm, were under $100 each. But the results are just stunning. Of course, the UltraSpeeds were 1 to 2 stops faster across the board, and that matters too!

The question is whether the mini35 itself is worth strapping onto a DVX. Using the UltraSpeeds was a little silly, a $3000 camera with an $8000 adapter and $20,000 in lenses... but the mini35 rents for only a few hundred per day, and if you need that shallow-DOF look, there's only two ways to get it: with the mini35, or with the SoftScreen. And the mini35 can do things the SoftScreen can't (like rack focus or dolly moves), but then again, for 30 times the price, it should...

I always wondered how the mini35 could be worth the price they charge, and especially how it would work on a fixed-lens camera like the DVX. Having now used it, I can say unequivocally that it is a marvelous piece of equipment, and I want one bad! :) (especially since I can use my existing still-camera lenses and not incur lens rental charges!)
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=news;num=1069887552;start=0#16 date=11/27/03 at 11:51:05]Using the UltraSpeeds was a little silly, a $3000 camera with an $8000 adapter and $20,000 in lenses...[/quote]

Sounds like 28 Days Later. I remember getting so pumped up that the film was shot with the XL1s; of course the fine print mentions the gazillion in lenses and accessories!
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

Yes, gazillions in lenses, but not the mini35. They used Canon EC & EJ prime lenses, very expensive premium glass. And the results were quite suspect on the big screen.

I did the math once: they used the XL1 (which really wasn't an unreasonable choice at the time, because there was no DVX100 or other 24P camera). They used a PAL XL1 in frame mode, with premium glass.

The PAL XL1 has at most about 430 lines of vertical resolution, due to its interlaced CCD (NTSC cams top out at about 360 lines). So PAL did give them some additional resolution. But then they put it in frame mode, which lops off about 25% of your usable resolution, so now they're down to about 320 lines. Then they extracted a 16:9 patch out of the center of that, so they lost another 25% of the CCD, meaning they're down to a usable 240 lines of resolution.

240 lines. As in, VHS quality. No wonder it was so soft and fuzzy on the big screen!

Had they shot it on a PAL DVX100 with anamorphic adapter, it would have had 576 lines, or 2.4x as much vertical resolution. Even the NTSC version would have delivered twice the resolution! Sure the Canon lenses helped deliver a much sharper picture to the chips, but if the chips on the back end can't back it up, how much did they really gain? I think a DVX could look dramatically superior to an XL1/prime lens combo in the theater, even with its fixed Leica lens!

I'm prepping this "matrix" mini35 footage, plus my outdoors DVX/anamorphic footage, for a film transfer. The lab will make prints available to anyone who wants one (for a nominal fee) so they can screen it in their own home town theater and see what a DVX can really look like on the big screen. Sort of like the 35mm version of Noah's ProMax PD150/DVX DVD. I'll let you all know when it's available, probably a good month or so down the road.
 
Re: DVX100 with mini35 adapter.

Yeah, I would have liked to have seen 28 days in DVX style. 28 days looks awesome on the tele though.
 
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