DVX100 vs DVX100a vs PD170- my impressions

SPZ

Veteran
I know this discussion is almost obsolete, but I feel I should share it with you guys, since I've been reading your fine posting for a year...

Here's my story

I've owned a dvx100 and exchanged it with a dvx100a. I've also got a pd170. Now here's a impression of someone that has been working on these systems for a while, and what I felt about them.

DVx100 vs dvx100a

People say that the DVX100a is a better camera than the dvx100- the slow shutter options, more scene file controls, extra cinegamma, 12 bit dsp... Indeed, Even though I was extremely satisfied with my dvx100 (having done some award winning short mtv's around here with it), I sold it to someone that would do good use to it and jumped fully convinced of an improved dvx100- How I was wrong.
One thing that I immediately noticed was grain. This has been discussed here on these boards for a while, and I see that lots of people try to find ways to overcome this problem by scene file settings, or adding a filter. This problem, however, is not present in the original dvx100. Is it because of the 12 bit dsp vs the 10 bit? This is what I suspect. What also happens is that in the dvx100a the diagonal lines are extremelly pixelated vs the dvx100, incredible and unacceptable for a Broadcast camera. The same can be said about the LCD- it is worse than the dvx100 one! Imagine my huge disappointment with facing this shortcomings... I really don't understand what happened... Needless to say I returned my dvx100a to panasonic in search of a problem, and they said it was inside factory specifications. A more bizarre episode will be described further ahead.

PD170

I really never liked this camera. It is heavy has hell, uses a jog dial for functions, no picture control and has no manual zoom. But something I have to admit. The image is SOLID. Yes, no jagged lines and very little to no gain. The lens is a lot inferior to the DVx's 100/a Leica Dicomar, and the colors probably not that good, but they can be souped up in post-production.

PD170 vs DVx100- The DVCAM PD170 looks solid. It has the solid picture look of a broadcast TV camera. The DVX100, however, looks less solid, but a lot more sharp, beautiful and artistic in picture. The wide lens gives the picture a very film type of imagery contrasted to the flat reporter like image of the PD170: I really would go for a DVX100 in this comparison

PD170 vs DVX100a- Note that both dvx's are compared in interlace mode against the PD170- we all know that in terms of progressive shooting there's no better option :)

Now this is my main problem. I can only shoot footage, nowadays, with my DVX100a inc progressive mode to justify a broadcast picture with the camera: beacause the dvx100a picture is a lot noisier and less solid than the PD170, to the point that I had to send my camera to panasonic with a tape with both images (pd170 and DVX100a) recorded and they saying that (!), the PD170 footage would look better because DVCAm is a superior format than MiniDV- aren't they the same in terms of mbps? I tought it was only for reliability!
Needless to say that I was furious with the answer, and , having stated the superiority of the dvx100 vs the dvx100a, the mentioned people just answered "the camera is inside factory specifications".

Bottom line

I've been messing with my dvx100a with the scene files settings in order to get a image has solid has the PD170, but with no avail: detail coring up, less grain- this is good- But the result is a lot less detail- wich means a picture poorer than the PD170.

- any suggestion to make the picture better than the PD170? No, no progressive scan!

- Do you DVX100a users feel the same towards picture quality in the original dvx100?

I'm really a bit furious with Panasonic HK right now, so I'm really leaning toward upgrading to a FX1 soon. I really felt passionate about my original dvx, and still struggle with my dvx100a sometimes, looking at how to improve the picture- However, its just too grainy and if I have to abdicate picture sharpness and quality in order to have a grainless and solid picture, than why bother and not stick with the PD170?

- And I'm an informed guy. I really can't believe that the Panasonic guys told me the DVCAM records better quality picture than the Mini dv Panasonic- What's the deal with Panny's Master series tapes, then?

DVX100 better than PD170 better than dvx100a. Is this possible?

Please help me to set up my 100a or tell me it isn't so!
 
Re: DVX100 vs DVX100a vs PD170- my impressions

i kind of see what you are saying. althogh i have not had any experience with 100 but only 100a, I will say this yes i have seen grain in low light. Honestly i dont think its a huge problem with proper lighting for night shots (unless you are going pitch black look) i did away with a lot of grain. Also in post the new after effect grain remove works fairly well for me. Although i could do without the rendering time but its very helpful all the same. I would like to add that the sony has a nack for low light versetility. I think you know a lot about this issue than i do, but i think proper lighting can fix anything in a scene. Im not really into doing horror films or a lot of low light stuff when i film at night i have light on subjects and than use the grain remove in post. Takes a lot out of my machine i have a p4 3ghz with 3 gigs of ram and it still chugs on that grain remove. Anyway i hope this helps a bit. When and if sony ever comes out with a normal camera (not hd) that has 24p i will make the switch. But for now this camera is excellent XL2 thats another story hehe good luck
 
Re: DVX100 vs DVX100a vs PD170- my impressions

I'm not sure what you mean by a "solid" image. I've compared both cameras side by side, and while the dvx is certainly grainier (especially outdoors), in progressive mode, they look very very similar to me. I usually can't tell much of a difference. Perhaps it's something with your scene file settings.

Side by side, dvx100 and dvx100a footage looks nearly identical to me. I noticed a bit more grain in my 100a than in a 100, but that was due to the EVF being turned on. If the LCD image has unacceptably sharp edges and grain, it's because EVF is on. Btw, I get next to no grain even in dark scenes, but still a tiny bit more than the pd170. (When I turn gain up, I get a lot more.)
 
Re: DVX100 vs DVX100a vs PD170- my impressions

Why does it perform worse outside? I would have imagined the extra light would only help.
 
Re: DVX100 vs DVX100a vs PD170- my impressions

He's referring to EVF DTL, which is the shorthand name for saying Electronic ViewFinder Detail, which is the "peaking" function that draws a think white outline around objects that are in sharp focus.
 
Re: DVX100 vs DVX100a vs PD170- my impressions

It performs worse outside since the 5600K setting has a lot more noise. An 85B filter corrects this.
 
Re: DVX100 vs DVX100a vs PD170- my impressions

Where can i buy some useful filters like the 85b cheap tho please. Im going to b using them with the mattlebox kit from cinetactics.
 
Re: DVX100 vs DVX100a vs PD170- my impressions

Buying cheap filters is a mistake. Why put a $10 piece of questionable glass in front of a $3400 camera's Leica lens?

If you want cheap, you can't get much cheaper than Cokin. But quality will suffer.

Normally you want to spend the very most you possibly can on anything that goes in front of your lens.
 
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