DVX vs. JVC HD1.

Re: DVX vs. JVC HD1.

I have mixed feelings about the results. If you look at the clapper board the results are disastrous. But the details on the womans face are closer to the HD footage. Unfortunately, it doesn't to her justice as much as the HD footage. The colors are still better then the HD though.

Have you tried rescalling in After Effects?
 
Re: DVX vs. JVC HD1.

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=news;num=1069915799;start=0#18 date=12/01/03 at 23:55:23]I couldn't figure out how to overcome the 4:1:1 color sampling though, there's some nasty artifacting going on, perhaps someone who knows something about the program can recommend how to fix it?[/quote]

Here's my understanding of it...

It looks like Vegas is handling the DV codec similarly to Apple, where it does not interpolate the color sampling - with good reason - and leaves this to the hardware upon outputting via firewire. (Here's Adam Wilt's explanation regarding Apple/Avid's approach: http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html#ChromaInterpolation)

My guess is that you first need to process the color information if you are going to uprez it and/or work with it in another codec. I'm not sure how Vegas handles this but there's now a plug-in for this in FCP 4 and here's an example from FCP3 (with some explanation): http://www.adamwilt.com/SteppyEdges.html

Hope this helps,
Clayton

PS - As far as I know AE (and FCP) are both pretty miserable at scaling up footage. As for S-Spline do they now have a function to either work on movie files or batch process an image sequence? The only thing I would be concerned about there is that some still image up-rezzing apps don't look 'right' when played back at 24/30 fps. I'm not sure about S-Spline, but I think there are some that are meant specifically for up-rezzing moving footage.
 
Re: DVX vs. JVC HD1.

how do you up-rez a movie in s-spline, it only gives me the option to up-rez an image
 
Re: DVX vs. JVC HD1.

you need to export the SD footage as a series of Tiffs.. then batch process them in S-Spline.. its not the easiest process, but it works.
 
Re: DVX vs. JVC HD1.

I had to use S-Spline Pro, that gives you the option to batch-process. So yes, as Zoom said, you export a series of stills, use Pro to up-rez them, and then recombine them in your editing program.

I tried to download Magic Bullet's demo, to use their "de-artifacting" process, which I thought would overcome the limitations, but for the life of me I couldn't get it to install! It kept saying "error on your install drive \X: disk full?" Of course, I don't have an X drive, so then I tried it on another computer and it'd say "error on your install drive \]: disk full?" So obviously something's haywire.

Hmmm, that Adam Wilt page now reminds me, of the great artifacting wars between codecs. I had ignored it because on SD it doesn't make a difference, but going for an HD up-rez it certainly does!

Looks like Adam Wilt's written some filters to solve the problem on the Mac (http://adamwilt.com/SteppyEdges.html) Anybody on this board a Mac user who wants to try it? Download s-spline pro from s-spline.com, download the .AVI file from here http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVXvsJVC.avi and give it a whirl?
 
Re: DVX vs. JVC HD1.

Adam is a ninja.. gotta meet him on wed hopefully.
 
Re: DVX vs. JVC HD1.

I had a chance to look at the new rendered up rez footage, and i must say that it has brought my hopes much higher, becasue of the superior color of the dvx it makes the jvc look "muddy" and bland, anyway i think flintstone said something about the clapper board anh how bad it was, well yes thats true but did you notice how much texture you can see on the chair the woman is sitting in compared to the JVC, in the JVC footage the chairs texture is all smudged together (i assume it is due to HDV's mpeg compression) where us in te dvx you can make out the texture, the only thing the higher resoultion has done is made a smoother diagnal lines (thats maybe why the clapper board looks so bad?) and curves are more natural and smooth, but i think joe bloggs doesnt notoce these things anyway, all they know is if its a pretty picture they see, and judging by the SSpline footage i've seen i think they will vote for dvx no questions, (look they dont understand the finer technicality/ and or care, thats down to us who know)
 
Re: DVX vs. JVC HD1.

I'm pretty sure the clapper board artifacts can be cleaned up.

Different DV codecs respond differently to the issue of chroma smoothing. Clearly the Vegas codec doesn't bother with smoothing, so the up-rezzed images have very sharp transitions on the 4:1:1 color sampling boundaries. The clapper board is an easy place to see it, but I notice it even worse on her right shoulder up against the white background.

I've heard that the Matrox software codec offers configurable smoothing, but I can't find a way to implement that. I also have an old RT2000 system here in case the hardware codec offers chroma smoothing, but again, I can't find it. I had hoped to use Avid FreeDV to export the pictures, but I can't get that to work either. And Magic Bullet has a "de-artifactor" option, but I don't have AE, and I tried downloading it so I could try using the plug-in in Premiere 6.0 (it supports many AE plugins, so I thought it might work with MB) but I couldn't get it installed.

So, no further testing at this time is possible -- but if we could get someone with an Avid to download the original file, and export the stills, we could use S-Spline Pro to up-rez them, and I bet it would look GOOD!
 
Re: DVX vs. JVC HD1.

the matrox codec has options of "on" vs "off" for both chroma interpolation, and chroma smoothing.  its nice to have the option depending on what your trying to do.  ..as far as i know only supports the magic bullet looks suite plugin..which they have renamed "movie look" for preset color corrections, and im only aware  that premiere pro supports it, but it does ship with it right now.
ive got AE  and would offer to give it a try, but i dont have the full MB suite. ..oh i do have the matrox rtx1oo extreme thingy, and could export it with  the different options..
 
Re: DVX vs. JVC HD1.

Is the smoothing thing something they added for the RTX100? Like I said, mine's the older RT2000, and I can't find any option for chroma smoothing.
 
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