When I export to DVD once I watch it on a television the black levels suck compared to the original, I thought it might have been my tv but then I hooked the dvd player up to the playback monitor that I edited with and the colors and blacklevels are all a little lighter than the original.
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DVD Problem
- Thread starter goober542
- Start date
Re: DVD Problem
A few different things could be going on here but they all, most likely, come down to NTSC "Setup". DVD players add setup to the signal to bring it up to NTSC specs.
If you shot with the camera set to 7.5 IRE (which is generally a no-no), then by the time you get to DVD you've essentially added setup to setup, resulting in washed out images and milky blacks. Your blacks are starting at 15 IRE instead of 7.5. This will affect color too.
If while editing, your NTSC monitor isn't properly calibrated and/or you're sending a signal to it at 0 IRE and the monitor isn't displaying it with setup added (ie: you're viewing the native 0 IRE DV signal) - then you are not seeing an accurate representation of what the picture will and should look like on TV. While setup isn't included in the DV spec, it needs to be taken into consideration for "legal" (NTSC) TV and Broadcast use.
A few different things could be going on here but they all, most likely, come down to NTSC "Setup". DVD players add setup to the signal to bring it up to NTSC specs.
If you shot with the camera set to 7.5 IRE (which is generally a no-no), then by the time you get to DVD you've essentially added setup to setup, resulting in washed out images and milky blacks. Your blacks are starting at 15 IRE instead of 7.5. This will affect color too.
If while editing, your NTSC monitor isn't properly calibrated and/or you're sending a signal to it at 0 IRE and the monitor isn't displaying it with setup added (ie: you're viewing the native 0 IRE DV signal) - then you are not seeing an accurate representation of what the picture will and should look like on TV. While setup isn't included in the DV spec, it needs to be taken into consideration for "legal" (NTSC) TV and Broadcast use.
Re: DVD Problem
If you're routing the output of your NLE through a DV camera (for the analog outs) then the signal arriving at your monitor is going to have a black level that starts at 0 IRE.
If you've tried to calibrate your monitor to this it would require you to turn the brightness up farther than it normally would be than if you had calibrated it with a signal with blacks starting at 7.5. Does that make sense?
So, you have a monitor that's adjusted brighter than it should. When you play the DVD, it adds setup, so you end up with blacks that start at around 15 IRE - everything is brighter than what you were accustomed to seeing.
You could do a couple of things:
1) Temporarly place full SMPTE bars (with plunge so that you can do a proper calibration) in Premiere timeline. Apply a levels effect and adjust the black output down until it reaches minus 7.5 IRE on the scope. Then calibrate your monitor to this signal. This is a "fake-out" and only serves to give you a better idea of what your DVD's will look like. Again, this is only an approximation. The next solution is better.
2) Buy a device like the Canopus ADVC100 which you would connect to your NLE instead of the camera. It has a switch that adds setup to the analog outs. (Calibrate your monitor with bars through this). The good thing about using one of these is that your dubs (VHS or other analog) will have the proper setup added, and in my opinion look better because of it. Of course, you'll also see what your DVD's will look like in terms of levels.
If you're routing the output of your NLE through a DV camera (for the analog outs) then the signal arriving at your monitor is going to have a black level that starts at 0 IRE.
If you've tried to calibrate your monitor to this it would require you to turn the brightness up farther than it normally would be than if you had calibrated it with a signal with blacks starting at 7.5. Does that make sense?
So, you have a monitor that's adjusted brighter than it should. When you play the DVD, it adds setup, so you end up with blacks that start at around 15 IRE - everything is brighter than what you were accustomed to seeing.
You could do a couple of things:
1) Temporarly place full SMPTE bars (with plunge so that you can do a proper calibration) in Premiere timeline. Apply a levels effect and adjust the black output down until it reaches minus 7.5 IRE on the scope. Then calibrate your monitor to this signal. This is a "fake-out" and only serves to give you a better idea of what your DVD's will look like. Again, this is only an approximation. The next solution is better.
2) Buy a device like the Canopus ADVC100 which you would connect to your NLE instead of the camera. It has a switch that adds setup to the analog outs. (Calibrate your monitor with bars through this). The good thing about using one of these is that your dubs (VHS or other analog) will have the proper setup added, and in my opinion look better because of it. Of course, you'll also see what your DVD's will look like in terms of levels.
Re: DVD Problem
I have never had problems with my mini Dv or BETA dubs I hav enot checked any VHS because I never dub to that format. If I were to put a negative 7.5 ire on the final DVD project before render then it will come out fine? And what filter is best to used when doing this? Also if I do this is this going to be more like what I am seeing at the moment since my monitor is calibrated to bars coming from the DV cam through premiere?
Ryan
I have never had problems with my mini Dv or BETA dubs I hav enot checked any VHS because I never dub to that format. If I were to put a negative 7.5 ire on the final DVD project before render then it will come out fine? And what filter is best to used when doing this? Also if I do this is this going to be more like what I am seeing at the moment since my monitor is calibrated to bars coming from the DV cam through premiere?
Ryan
Re: DVD Problem
You wouldn't have a problem with mini DV dubs because they're supposed to be at 0 IRE anyway and that's what you are currently monitoring at. Dubbing via firewire from your NLE would have no affect on IRE levels - even if using another device to apply setup to the analog outs. Your Beta dubs will also look identical but technically they're incorrect. However, if someone uses bars at the head of those tapes as a reference they could use their proc amp controls and a scope if necessary to arrive at the proper setup level for broadcast. It would be better if they didn't have to do that.
And yes, you could set the output in your timeline to compensate so that your DVD's look like your monitor (using something like the levels filter. Remember that if you now play the DVD on your editing monitor, it will look darker than normal because of the way you have it adjusted but on other TV's it will look like it did while editing). But again, that's really not the way to do it. I think your analog outs should have Setup applied and your monitor calibrated accordingly. If you like what you are seeing now while editing, then you could color correct to get the darker, contrastier, crushed black look that you are currently seeing.
Bottom line is, there's nothing to keep you from using technically incorrect IRE levels, but if any of your work is intended for broacast you're just asking for problems down the road.
You wouldn't have a problem with mini DV dubs because they're supposed to be at 0 IRE anyway and that's what you are currently monitoring at. Dubbing via firewire from your NLE would have no affect on IRE levels - even if using another device to apply setup to the analog outs. Your Beta dubs will also look identical but technically they're incorrect. However, if someone uses bars at the head of those tapes as a reference they could use their proc amp controls and a scope if necessary to arrive at the proper setup level for broadcast. It would be better if they didn't have to do that.
And yes, you could set the output in your timeline to compensate so that your DVD's look like your monitor (using something like the levels filter. Remember that if you now play the DVD on your editing monitor, it will look darker than normal because of the way you have it adjusted but on other TV's it will look like it did while editing). But again, that's really not the way to do it. I think your analog outs should have Setup applied and your monitor calibrated accordingly. If you like what you are seeing now while editing, then you could color correct to get the darker, contrastier, crushed black look that you are currently seeing.
Bottom line is, there's nothing to keep you from using technically incorrect IRE levels, but if any of your work is intended for broacast you're just asking for problems down the road.