DV n00b, know what I want, have done the research, but am confused by the options...

J

jig89

New member
Hey guys,

First post here, but I've read all the stickies and have a basic understanding of sound production. I'm starting a YouTube series where I want to interview people both indoors and outdoors, kinda like this.

Indoors: 1-on-1, fairly quiet, no movingOutdoors: 1-on-1 or more, wind noise, moving would be ideal
int_1.jpg
int_2.jpg
Video Link: It is easy to hear the audio difference
between Ali G (not using lav) and Noam Chomsky
(using lav)		Video Link: Are there 2 or 3 mics in use here?
I'm thinking 3? Handheld, lav, shotgun on camera?
In this situation, I was planning on getting:
2 XLR wired lav mics		In this situation, I was planning on getting:
1 wireless handheld

My budget is about $800 to $1500 max, but given that I am a 1 man band and have no experience with such equipment, and with this being my first project of this type, I'm hesitant to drop so much dough. This is also where the questions start due to my budget and stupidness :P

I have used the Zoom H4N and H2 in the past, but don't have access to them at the moment. I am wondering if anyone has successfully used the internal mics on them along with a mic clip adapter and windscreen to make it a "bootleg" wireless handheld mic.

In the most likely case of no, I'll follow up with another silly question. Has anyone successfully shotgun mics along with a short boom pole or adapter as a funky handheld mic? Since the cardioid pattern works from up above, it should also work decently from below, pointed upwards right?
 
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Well the first clip is two lavs. It sounds different because of placement. Ali G's is to the side and pointing away from his mouth and Chomsky's is tucked in close to his throat. And he has a lower voice. The other one is a lav and the handheld. In both cases there doesn't seem to be much / any post production on the sound. i.e. nobody even tried to make them match, but that is the style for them so...

It depends on the project and time line but you can probably get somebody for $1000 and not have to worry about it.

If what you demoed is the style your after then it sort of doesn't matter much.

Wired lavs require that you be connected to the interviewee so a sit down is OK walking is not with out a second person making sure the cable doesn't snag.

All the mini recorders have cardioid mics so you would need to get them really close to get much isolation, and you would have to aim one capsule at who you want and toss the other channel.

You don't need a boom to hand hold a shotgun. Actually a boom would bake it really awkward. ENG types used to use shot guns all the time handheld. It wouldn't be my choice but for this style...

Pattern has nothing to do with the angle of the mic.
 
jig89 said:
...In the most likely case of no, I'll follow up with another silly question. Has anyone successfully shotgun mics along with a short boom pole or adapter as a funky handheld mic? Since the cardioid pattern works from up above, it should also work decently from below, pointed upwards right?
Click to expand...

The problem with using shotguns from straight ahead or below is that there is a higher probability of a source of interfering noise in-line BEHIND the talent accidentally getting into the mic pattern. Booming from above, the line extending from the mic through the talent points to empty ground with no sound sources usually present. As long as you keep your eye on what is behind the talent and monitor continuously to make sure no noises intrude you should be fine
 
@Noiz2
Thanks for breaking down the audio equipment used in the videos above. This project isn't professional, however it is long term and there will be a lot of traveling so I don't want to worry about hiring a new crew at each location. And thanks for clearing up the pattern thing - I was unaware of this.

@Steve house
Ah, I see. Didn't think about people who might be behind the talent. Looks like shotgun mics aren't going to be ideal in my case.


Also, I've stumbled upon boundary mics and am going to do some more research about them. Any particular models stand out? Reason I'm considering this is that they might be more convenient than the lavs for the interviewee as they don't have to clip a lav on. However, I'm curious as to what the audio quality is like.
 
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When I do news (ENG) camerapeople like to have rather boom (or lav) then handheld because it's "more beautiful".

In a way, a handheld is good when you do voxpop. Or if you want to interview Obama, and you have to use your questions too.

A boom is "cooler" because people don't know there's a boom actualy...they think it's just the on camera mic. Like people think they're 3 camerateams when in a reality program a person rings at a house, and
then next shot is inside the house and next shot is in the kitchen....
In a way..it's cool to know as a soundguy that people don't know you exist :-p. Most of the times people do look the most at me then the camera...they try to ask me questions...But I can't hear them...

And maybe you know this, but I just want to chair it... Watch out for answers like "yes", "one million" ... if you don't use your question in the final edit. "well yes we're gladd to have chickens", "and we have about one million chickens".
 
Forget "boundary mics". They are a one-trick pony that people have tried (largely unsuccessfully) to kludge into unsuitable applications. Unless you are interviewing people in a phone booth, or a coffin or a bathroom stall, I can't imagine how they could do you any good. Not worth even considering, IMHO.

Microphones are not magic. The closer you can get one to the talker's mouth, the better your recorded track will be.
 
@dre83
Oh I have no need for any sort of "beauty" in terms of visuals. I'd rather have the mic showing and what not as I'm doing a comedy program. But yeah, the boom is way cooler. However, my $$$ is running low so that'll come later.

@Richard Crowley
Microphones are not magic. The closer you can get one to the talker's mouth, the better your recorded track will be.
Click to expand...
Lmao, so true. I needed that bit of advice as I was trying to avoid this :happy:


So far it looks like I'm going to buy
  • 2 wired lav mics (doing research for ~$100 models)
  • 1 dynamic mic (love the Sennheiser MD46)
  • 1 portable audio recorder w/ XLR and phantom power (probably Tascam DR-40)
As I work on the series some more and get some more funding, I'm looking to buy the Marantz PMD 661, a shotgun mic, boom pole, and real camcorder. I really appreciate all the help so far, it's made my life so much easier.
 
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Rick R said:
The omni directional MD42 would be a better choice for reporter type interviews.
Click to expand...

Strongly disagree. The MD46 was designed specifically for this kind of work. If anything, I prefer an even more directional mic for limiting background noise, and frequently use short shotguns for interviews, as long as the interviewer is somewhat savvy about how to point it.

- GDS
 
Another vote for an omni handheld. The most popular handheld mic for interviews is the omni-directional Electro-Voice RE50b. When the interviewee suddenly and unexpectedly starts turning their head as they speak, an omni sounds more even.

Another issue when using a shotgun as a handheld is handling noise. The slightest finger movement creates a huge wallop of noise. In this situation the on-camera talent has to be ever savvier (they're practically audio engineers at this point).

Just for the record, the Mic Clip Adapter for the Zoom recorders is designed to enable you to mount the recorder to a handheld mic clip that's attached to a mic stand. They're essentially for musicians in a rehearsal space. They can stick their Zoom on an unused mic stand for recording. Using that thing in an interview situation would just make the process ever more awkward.
 
I have the MD46, it's good. It has no "switch" (which is always good), never have microphones with a switch (except for wirelles, but the switch is very difficult to reach and you need to push 4sec or so..)
 
Hmm, interesting discussion about the MD46. I ordered mine today and will post back. My other options would probably be the MD42 or Electro-Voice RE50, which are both omnidirectional

For those who do own the MD46, how is the signal when used with a portable audio recorder such as the Zoom H4N, Tascam DR-40/DR-100? Is it hot and audible enough? How's the noisiness?

I'm asking because I've read some cases of weak signals and hear that using an XLR to 1/8" adapter to plug the mic into the 1/8" mic input would boost the signal. I'm not sure whether to believe this as I thought balanced (prosumer) signals were +4dB and unbalanced (consumer) signals were -10dB. Wouldn't this attenuate the signal?
 
The MD46 has an above-average output level compared to other dynamic microphones. Certainly, more than the RE50, RE20 or SM58, all of which I've owned and used over the years. However, it is not in condenser territory at all. I haven't used it with any of the specific recorders you mentioned, but with my camcorders and Tascam HD-P2, it is easy to get a good level without turning the control much past the midpoint when the MD46 is used as a close-up, hand-held interview mic as intended. If you try to push too far and use it more than a foot or so away from the subject's mouth, then (as with any cardioid mic) you will find it may not be adequate. Those are situations that call for a shotgun anyway. My bottom line is that when used as it was designed, the MD46 will deliver a clear and low-noise signal. (Like any dynamic mic, it produces no electronic noise of its own; the only problem would come from turning up the preamps on the recorder too far.)

The +4/-10 discussion refers to line-level signals which are not relevant when discussing the much lower levels that come out of a microphone (-30 to -60 dBV depending on the microphone type). You use a preamp to boost a microphone signal up to line level.

I would always plug the MD46 into a balanced XLR input on any recorder that had one. Using it on an unbalanced 3.5mm plug compromises noise immunity and the robustness of the physical connector.

- Greg
 
@Greg Smith
Thanks for the info, it definitely cleared some things up.

Has anyone used the FetHead pre-amps with good results? It seems that I can just plug them into a low end recorder like Zoom H4N, Tascam DR-40 and make them sound like the Marantz PMD661 or Tascam HD-P2. This is all of course with respect to external mics input.

I'm wondering why don't I see more discussion about them?
 
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