dollies and jibs and steadicams...oh my!

G

glass

Member
I'm putting together a pile of gear to practice my framing and blocking, basically so I'll better know how to communicate with my friendly neighborhood DP when directing. The question is how much do I actually need to get 90% of the shots I'd want with good production value? (Hydraulics and cranes are off the table).

e.g. Can a tripod dolly replace a dolly on a track, or are they only useful with a perfectly flat floor? Too noisy? How effective is a jib on a tripod compared with a jib on a track or tripod dolly? Can I do without dollies altogether and get a steadicam setup? Can a person with legs of different lengths (I've got a small limp) even USE a steadicam effectively, or would it just be bobbing up and down? Does a fig rig work? You get the idea....

Thanks in advance, and I apologize if this is answered elsewhere already.
 
Here's my input. Dollies and jibs and steadicams and all are nice, but aren't absolutely necessary to a good film. Let's face it, your average joe doesn't go to the movie theatre and talk about how awsome the crane shots looked in Batman begins, or how good the steadicam op must have been in Anchorman. (I don't hold these opinions, it's just 6:30am and they were the first two movies that popped into my head). Good production value doesn't always equate to a good film. The shots in a film that use a tripod far outweigh the shots that will call for a jib, dolly or steadicam. I suggest spending some money on a really nice tripod, you'll get far more use out of it than a steadicam or jib. To answer your question about dolly's, no, a tripod dolly cannot replace a track dolly. However, you can make a really kick ass track dolly for less than 200 bucks. It uses PVC pipe for the tracks, and can be setup in about 10 seconds. If you are wanting to aquire some gear, I first suggest getting a good tripod, and then building yourself a dolly. Also, it takes alot of time to master the use of a steadicam and jib, so I would say concentrate first on the basics, and get fancy once you've done that.
 
I agree 100% with PDX DVX. The Dogma people have made some amazing films all hand held. Now having said that, I use two rigs from my book 90% of the time: a dolly combined with a short jib. You can make them both for under $150. They are designed to work together and mimic the shots Hollywood gets with a Fisher dolly with a short boom attached. I like this better than a tripod, even for static shots, because it is so fast: I just dolly to where is need it, boom the camera into position, and I'm good for the next set-up. And if I want to move the camera, I'm already set. Also, if you've not checked out Per Holmes DVD series on camera movement, it's worth every penny:

http://www.hollywoodcamerawork.us/index.html

Good luck on your shoot!

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com
 
If you get the per holmes DVD series and stop watchning after the first two DVDs you'll be okay. But should you venture into discs 3 and 4, be forewarned... You'll be overcome by gottahaveatrackdollyandcrane-itis.

Unfortunately there is no known cure!
 
...I just finished volume 5 of the Per Holmes series yesterday...
:embarasse
It IS a great series, and unfortunately it has convinced me of the value of moving the camera to enhance emotive scenes. That, and I've always recoiled at the look of handheld shots (NYPD Blue always gave me a headache). I've been taking stills for about 5 years now, so I'm pretty happy with my tripod, but if someone can recommend a great fluid head that would be appreciated (using an XL2). Incidentally, there is actually a local steadicam class in about a month that I could take...does anyone know if that is sufficient to replace the track altogether or would it only be an add-on?
 
The Bogen 503...and stay with me here...isn't bad FOR THE PRICE (about $250). You can use a steadicam to replace a dolly, BUT it takes a huge amount of skill. You'll discover this in your class when you try walking backwards trying to keep and actor's face perfectly solid in the frame. Plus this gets harder and harder as the long hours of operation wear you down.

Dan
www.DvcameraRigs.com
 
"Does a Fig Rig work?"

When I first read about the Fig Rig, I thought that it was either the stupidest thing ever, or maybe it was just crazy enough to actually work. A friend of mine bought one and I got a chance to try it out. I was blown away!

From the second I picked it up, I was able to shoot some very nice steady footage! We had an XL2 mounted on it and I was following people through the hallways at the television studio where I work. I think that with a little practice, the Fig Rig could be almost as good as a full on stedy-cam rig without the huge expense and the high learning curve. It does get a little heavy after a while, but it's so addicting that you hardly notice the weight.

I am definitely going to get one for myself. I never would have believed it if I hadn't gotten to try it out in person.
 
That's me on a 25' CamMate Jib this past weekend. Wish I owned it but $25K is a bit out of my price range. I have it all summer while the owner is on vacation. He gets an equipment rental and I get the op fee when it gets used.

46730378.jpg
 
Thanks to everybody for their advice.

danslak et al, that is around my range for a head...do you know how the 503 compares with the 516 or the Cartonis in the same range?

KHendrix2, how much of the instant steady was due to the camera, or was that turned off? How well did the remote controls work (if you used them)? Besides looking weird, it looks like it could cause some serious fatigue...how long do you think you could use it before your arms go numb? If a steadicam can replace tracks, and a fig rig can replace a steadicam, that's a whole lot of time saved in set-up that can be spent on more shots.
I'll definitely start demanding 5 more scenes a day. :evil:

Sirius_Doggy, I was thinking of building a jib from some scrap pieces of aluminum I have, but if you want to um...lose the one you've got, I know a guy with a truck. :thumbsup:
 
glass said:
Sirius_Doggy, I was thinking of building a jib from some scrap pieces of aluminum I have, but if you want to um...lose the one you've got, I know a guy with a truck. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

HaHaHa...I don't think so.
Anyone in the Vegas area need the services of a 30' jib between now and mid Sept.......
 
glass said:
Thanks to everybody for their advice.

danslak et al, that is around my range for a head...do you know how the 503 compares with the 516 or the Cartonis in the same range?
Click to expand...

I've never used a Cartonis, so I really can't comment on it. But between the 501 and the 503, there is a huge difference! So I would imagine that the 516 at twice the price of the 503 ($500) would be even better. While I teach people how to make their own rigs, I also recommend that they get the best fluid head that they can possibly afford. As for tripods: I have a couple of sets of wood sticks, but the tripod I use the most is a surveyor's tripod. Because they don't have the word "cinema" attached to them, they are really inexpensive (around $80), and work great for DV work. I've even butched them up to hold a big freakin crane. If you look into surveyor's tripods, make sure you get one with a flat head and NOT a dome head.

Dan
www.DvcameraRigs.com
 
If a steadicam can replace tracks, and a fig rig can replace a steadicam, that's a whole lot of time saved in set-up that can be spent on more shots.
Click to expand...

C'mon, do you really think that can work?

I am still to see a steadicam shot that can replace a dolly. And beware that steadicam is very hard to learn and master, and it requires a good technique on walking smoothly (without going up and down with the camera). Even if you are working with a full professional steadicam rig, you would still need a very good operator - holywood level - to start thinking about getting over track. And most dolly grips won't faint after take 27.

Now the logic is that steadicam almost equals track and fig rig almost equals steadicam, is like getting a VX-1000 instead of a DXV because a PD-170 almost equals a DVX and a VX-1000 almost equals a PD-170.

The good news is that a dolly is a piece of cake to build, at least a doorway dolly on PVC tracks, and they can get you very smooth shots. And they are cheaper than a fig rig. You can rent jib arms for very little, and condense all your crane shots to one or two days. That's the standard procedure.
 
UNCLE!
hehe...no, I was just being facetious...I have been convinced of the necessity and utility of the venerable track dolly, but in my neverending quest to fit an entire production into the back of my volvo wagon, I've got yet another dumb question:

is there any reason I can't fix some wheels on a heavy-duty tripod with a good spreader and use *that* as my dolly? I assume it would work as long as I can put enough weight on the spreader (which is at the bottom) to keep the center of gravity low...am I mistaken?
 
glass said:
is there any reason I can't fix some wheels on a heavy-duty tripod with a good spreader and use *that* as my dolly? I assume it would work as long as I can put enough weight on the spreader (which is at the bottom) to keep the center of gravity low...am I mistaken?
Click to expand...

I have a dolly like the one you are describing - it is made by Bogen, and attaches to the bottom of the tripod. It works ok, but it does not replace my track dolly. The difficulty with a dolly like that is that you HAVE to have a smooth surface, as each bump is tranmitted to the tripod, and you cannot get repeatable moves. Sure each move may be similar to the last one, but you'll neven get it exact, which is what a track dolly will allow you to do. It can also be cumbersome trying to go in a straight line as the wheels are not locked in any direction. This dolly does work well for events where I need to quickly change locations of the camera.
 
Of course the camera was turned on! I gave the Fig Rig a full workout, including the zoom/focus control. I'm telling you, it works! Obviously if you turn on the image stabilization and work the wide end of the lens, you'll get steadier shots, but that's just common sense.

The XL2 is way heavier than the DVX, so you could avoid any fatigue issues with the DVX. I'm guessing that a person could use it pretty constantly for about a half day without dropping dead, but that would never happen. You won't be able to hang on to it for more than 5 minutes at a time because everyone on the set will want to try it!
 
Hey Taubkin,

Right now the project that we were working on is in post. I don't know when it will be done. If I get my own Fig Rig as soon as I want to, I'll shoot some stuff and get it out.
 
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