Does the script matter?

M

Mariella

Member
Are there a lot of crummy scripts getting made into expensive movies which draw accolades? Its really scarey to think that some very touted movies can't be better with all the highly paid people involved. Is the attitude that movie goers will always go to the movies no matter the quality of the script? :Drogar-Smoke(DBG):
 
Sometimes very interesting films are made with little more than a wing and a prayer - a minimum sketch of a script fleshed out and improvised during production, e.g., see Monsters for a recent example of this. Story is still everything, yeah, but a script isn't. These sorts of films are the exception to the rule, however.
 
Mariella said:
Are there a lot of crummy scripts getting made into expensive movies which draw accolades? Its really scarey to think that some very touted movies can't be better with all the highly paid people involved. Is the attitude that movie goers will always go to the movies no matter the quality of the script? :Drogar-Smoke(DBG):
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Well, yeah. All you need is a high-concept logline and outline, a cool idea for a poster, a loud, kinetically edited trailer, and usually people will flock in droves. Bad word of mouth may or may not negatively affect a film's box office past its opening weekend. Wolverine is a good example of this. That movie had bad word of mouth and an internet leak working against it, yet it killed. Us screenwriters like to think we're the most important part of the process, and the plethora of screenwritng books and gurus work hard to stroke that ego, but are we really? They'll find a way to make tons of money with or without you.
 
the cinematography in hollywood movies is always top notch and the acting is always at least passable- when movies suck its usually cause the screenplay/story sucks (bad dialog, plot doesnt work, etc).
 
memento515 said:
when movies suck its usually cause the screenplay/story sucks (bad dialog, plot doesnt work, etc).
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Well -- again, there's usually a huge difference between the script that the writer wrote, and the script that actually gets shot. Read Bill Martell's fascinating blog entry on Robin Hood to get an inside look at just how eviscerated great scripts get, to end up being the stuff that shows up on the screen.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well -- again, there's usually a huge difference between the script that the writer wrote, and the script that actually gets shot. Read Bill Martell's fascinating blog entry on Robin Hood to get an inside look at just how eviscerated great scripts get, to end up being the stuff that shows up on the screen.
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Just the other day I was reading how in THE BIG CHILL, a movie that many actors famous, there were all these opening scenes of Kevin Costner, the guy that dies, then all the friends come together to mourn his death, etc. All the scenes with Costner got cut out of the finished film; not that it didn't make the film better, but just shows how there can be such a difference between the screenplay and the film, sometimes for the better, sometimes not.
 
Randall_Oelerich said:
Just the other day I was reading how in THE BIG CHILL, a movie that many actors famous, there were all these opening scenes of Kevin Costner, the guy that dies, then all the friends come together to mourn his death, etc. All the scenes with Costner got cut out of the finished film; not that it didn't make the film better, but just shows how there can be such a difference between the screenplay and the film, sometimes for the better, sometimes not.
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That's because invariably the story is told three times. Once when its written, once when its in production and once again when its edited.
 
"No. There are a lot of excellent scripts that are being butchered by the development process..."

Well that's the myth, from the trenches. I personally have never seen an "excellent script" in my entire life. I hear they're out there though.
 
Well -- again, there's usually a huge difference between the script that the writer wrote, and the script that actually gets shot. Read Bill Martell's fascinating blog entry on Robin Hood to get an inside look at just how eviscerated great scripts get, to end up being the stuff that shows up on the screen.
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Well I appreciate what you are saying, the flip side of that is unless they improvised half the movie, somebody still wrote what showed up on the screen. Do production concerns and other outside forces influence the writing? Undoubtedly, and often for the worse. But the writer's job is to make the best screenplay given the existence of those forces - it's no shock to anyone that producers want the thing to be made faster/better/cheaper. I'm not commenting specifically on Robin Hood, as that sounds like it was several levels beyond this, but in general I don't think you can let the writer off the hook for bad screenplays on the excuse that production or the director killed it - working with the rest of the crew is part of the job.
 
polfilmblog said:
"No. There are a lot of excellent scripts that are being butchered by the development process..."

Well that's the myth, from the trenches. I personally have never seen an "excellent script" in my entire life. I hear they're out there though.
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I wish i could remember the article but I've read that development people typically filter through around 3000 or 4000 screenplays for each 1 that fits the bill.

and by "fits the bill", I mean the story is high concept, will attract a star and director, and is the sort of film that warrants full and half page ads in the paper on opening weekend. It is also the sort of film you could expect to see on HBO, Showtime, etc and whose DVDs will be carried by Walmart. Joe Drake of Lionsgate shared this insight here. It's a good read.
 
The movie "Knowing" went through an incredible amount of rewrites before Nicholas Cage finally starred in it. Those who read the original script and then saw the movie stated it was two completely different stories. The movie "Armored" I believe had only one writer throughout the process as did the movie "Swordfish." It usually takes 10 rewrites before a movie sees the light of day, but unless you have a good story, there's nothing to buy or rewrite the crap out of.

"Die Hard" is one example that despite everyone who worked on the script, in the end it was really decent.
 
Zak Forsman said:
Joe Drake of Lionsgate shared this insight here. It's a good read.
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Very good article. I try to read something about the business or screenwriting every day. I think this meets my quota :)

IMO, the fact that the industry is half-business, half-art, permanently entangled, is part of why it is so strong. If anything went, like all the other arts (except perhaps the music industry), the film industry would have sunk decades ago. But because the search is for scripts that can attract name talent, big box office rewards, and critical acclaim, it means screenwriters have to be half-business, half-art, too. So you have to cut it as a writer and as a salesman.

That's just my take.
 
As a rule of thumb, the script is everything. But in reality, as with all fields of endeavor, not always.

I watched Close Encounters of the Third Kind over last weekend, for the first time in probably 15 years. It is a marvel of cinema, a landmark event in sci-fi, a masterwork in Spielberg's repertoire.

But I'm sorry; the story is skull-crackingly dumb. In the hands of a director who wasn't a master at the very top of his game, it's the stuff of made-for-SyFy-Saturday-night fare.

There are other examples. Titanic has a terrible script with dorky dialogue and a contrived, throwaway plot. Yet, it too is a monument.
 
I tend to think the more money thrown at a film, the more of a business it becomes. A lot of what's artistic about independent film making is figuring out how to create your big vision on a limited budget. That and there are a lot less chefs in the kitchen. What was it that Dov Simens said? "Hollywood is about renting seats and selling sugar."
 
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