Do you think it's possible to shoot an AMAZING feature for under $10,000?

[Jawa Ex Machina]

Barry & co, why don't you use your ten grand to make a fan film or something? Or maybe something like that Mortal Kombat concept trailer?
Put $10,000 into something like that and you might land a much bigger investor with much more money for much less hassle.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

No no no

No FAN FILMS.

 

[pulpfiction007]

If we're talking about marketing and bankable marketing of low budget films - Blair Witch, which I didn't really like, comes to mind.
They used non actors, they barely knew how to operate the cameras...and yet they were able to garner a deal - even being a bunch of unknowns. (They had a hook....a clever concept)

I'm not saying this was an amazing film, but many known and unkown critics disagree with me.
So here we have an "amazing" film by some people's standards, that was made for an initial investment of $20,000 to $30,000 (could be shot for far less today given the tech/software available....the parts done on 16mm film and editing cost the most)
This inital investment and film were good enough to get a deal with Artisan and eventually make HUGE profits....again a bunch of unknowns created/filmed/acted/edited the movie.
There is no reason to think that something similar (budget wise) won't be done by someone else....oh yeah I forgot, it can't be done.

 

[David Jimerson]

If we're talking about marketing and bankable marketing of low budget films - Blair Witch, which I didn't really like, comes to mind.
They used non actors, they barely knew how to operate the cameras...and yet they were able to garner a deal - even being a bunch of unknowns. (They had a hook....a clever concept)

The odds do get beaten every now and then, just as someone wins the Powerball every couple of months or so. Everyone allowed for that.

But, some people seem to be of the mind that such an amazing confluence of circumstances can be engineered at will. Do what you do and maybe you'll get lucky. But the overwhelming likelihood is that you won't.

 

[pulpfiction007]

The odds do get beaten every now and then, just as someone wins the Powerball every couple of months or so. Everyone allowed for that.

But, some people seem to be of the mind that such an amazing confluence of circumstances can be engineered at will. Do what you do and maybe you'll get lucky. But the overwhelming likelihood is that you won't.

David, I'm not saying that I can do it - (and believe me I get what you're saying) - my belief is that some highly motivated, highly imaginative DVX User is out there with the right story that fits the requirements for an amazing low budget film (smaller in scope, high on concept). I just want them to try....that's all, and maybe he/she can be helped to achieve this through the wealth of user knowledge here.

 

[David Jimerson]

David, I'm not saying that I can do it - (and believe me I get what you're saying) - my belief is that some highly motivated, highly imaginative DVX User is out there with the right story that fits the requirements for an amazing low budget film (smaller in scope, high on concept). I just want them to try....that's all, and maybe he/she can be helped to achieve this through the wealth of user knowledge here.

No one said "forget it, don't try," only that "the odds are overwhelmingly against it." That's just a fact. You wouldn't bat an eye if someone asked if they could build an airplane for $10K and people said "sure, but not one anyone would want to fly in." This is no different.

 

[Kholi]

The odds do get beaten every now and then, just as someone wins the Powerball every couple of months or so. Everyone allowed for that.

But, some people seem to be of the mind that such an amazing confluence of circumstances can be engineered at will. Do what you do and maybe you'll get lucky. But the overwhelming likelihood is that you won't.

This is the only thing I do not like reading. And, I get what you're trying to say, but it's less of a lottery than the lottery is. Talent may be the powerball, but hard work and education can pay off as well. Whenever we get a Gareth Edwards or a Lena Durham, they get written off as lucky strikes. Needles in haystacks.

Well yeah, they are needles in haystacks if you're talking about a haystack of less than competent material. If people with money can engineer money makers them why can't people with few dollars, know how, and gusto engineer a micro/nano budget success?

As long as the content has a clear market and is entertaining, both of who h are pretty Easy to figure out.

Im not arguing, I just think it's a little off that the success is written off like that. It's not like either of them did Blair Witch or Paranormal Activity. They did full blown traditional narrative material and both in the same year.

Both with sub 30K spending cash budgets.

 

[vcassel]

So everyone more or less agrees. Great, what's the problem? This debate is mostly quibbling.

 

[Kholi]

No no no

No FAN FILMS.

I'm going to do a fan film! >=] it's a must.

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

I'm going to do a fan film! >=] it's a must.

I might wanna get in on that. What are you making?

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

The Blair Witch Project was not "just a film" though.

First of all, they had an IMMENSE back story and mythology thought out that was a huge part of the plot of the actual movie. Then they made a 60 minute or something documentary where the guys from the film walk around the town interviewing the townsfolk and are told about the Blair Witch legend and Rustin Parr etc. and you find out why the film ends the way it finally does.

Then they had a huge internet viral campaign before half the films coming out of Hollywood had their own viral campaign.

THEN there's the actual movie.

 

[Kholi]

I might wanna get in on that. What are you making?

I'm not sure yet! But, I'm gonna do it! Haha. Will have sixty days of downtime while the feature is finished in post starting in a week... Plenty of time to write and do small Lil projects.

 

[keylight]

Thread relevant:
Here's a Tribeca Attendance review of Ed Burns' feature, shot on the 5D MKII for 9K: http://www.indiewire.com/article/tr...ss_newlyweds_says_about_the_future_of_cheap_/

Thanks for that link. Very interesting article.

 

[keylight]

I'm sure somewhere there's a graph that shows what the ultimate budget number is for independent microbudget films. How much you'll have to spend against the likely amount of money you're getting back on your microbudget film.
I'd love to see a graph like that.

If anyone has a source for the data, I'd be happy to whip it into some charts. Of course, getting hold of that data is the hard part.....

...as long as Hollywood is only interested in doing... rhubarbs

You're arguing against yourself there.

Look. In 1981 when Sam Raimi made The Evil Dead, there were MUCH fewer films made. Both on the independent circuit and in Hollywood.
IMDb lists 2,983 titles in 1981.

30 years later, IMDb lists 7,160 titles released in 2010.

 

[keylight]

Anything that can help you advance on your career and get your films seen, even if you don't get $$$, is worthwhile. Neill Blomkamp. Fede Alvarez. The guy who did Raven. The guy who did that film about pixels. They all created something they wanted to make and put it online for free so people could see it. They didn't get money for it. They got an opportunity. Granted, those we're all short films, but if you can make great enough material to catch that buzz wave, I don't see why you couldn't do the same with a feature film.

Yes, Star Wreck had a marketable hook. Just like almost every Hollywood films has. What stops indie filmmakers from making a film that is original AND has a marketable hook? I didn't say that you should expect same kind of numbers that Star Wreck did. But to get your money back and get yourself out there? Possible. You have to be creative to succeed.

I know little about Alvarez, but I thought Blomkamp spent years working in VFX, and eventually broke through when he did the Tetra Vaal. So maybe doing an incredible short $10K is a better approach to a ho-hum feature.

And you better have an amazing script (or three) in your back pocket. When people are ready to write you big checks, they'll expect you to be ready with different projects they can choose from.

 

[Postmaster]

I'm going to do a fan film! >=] it's a must.

Bin there, done that.

Indiana Jones and the Spear of Destiny
(though I just did some of the VFX/CGI, the matte painting of the famous Indiana Jones warehouse of crates and DP on the car chase)

By the way, the only fan film ever that was allowed to play regularly in a theater for more than a week - thanks to some generous leeway from Lukas Fiilm. If someone wants to see the whole thing: http://www.youtube.com/user/corneliusvideo

Frank

 

[Kholi]

Ha! I do video games and Anime. =]

 

[8string]

+1 what Doc said...and remember the advice of cordvision...I also don't believe that some of those films referenced actually cost less than $10k. Sometimes donated labor is not in the equation. If you are expecting everyone to work for free, there is a cost to that. They are actually donating their time. Again though, given all that, if the story is great, and the crew donates much of it's time because they believe in it, and no one gets hurt while you are running under the radar for insurance, and you don't need to buy/rent expensive gear, etc. then sure, you might make it happen. It will then all depend on your story. A guy in my neck of the woods got a decent (not great) crew together last summer and produced a one hour video. Frankly, the story sucked. But the editor, cameraman set designer, and soundtrack composer came out with a nice piece for their resume. No money made on this production, just money spent. Why? Cause the story was boring and trite. No one had the nerve to tell that to the producer/director/writer (same guy) who insisted on total control. Oh well. I would never show this movie to anyone. I watched it and actually fell asleep. They asked me to help on sound, but once I realized that it was going to drag on vastly longer than anticipated (the first time I was supposed to be handling sound, the production timeline slipped a week I showed up, realized that nothing was going to happen for weeks and left. They never called me back). Not getting paid for the work, it was time to move on. They ended dubbing the monologue (!), and it sounded like it. It was really sad, they spent all the time and money, yet the story never had a chance. You'd think someone would have told him. So that's what you face. Make sure your story is really compelling, and that everyone really believes that, and isn't just BS'ing you.

 

[vcassel]

And you better have an amazing script (or three) in your back pocket. When people are ready to write you big checks, they'll expect you to be ready with different projects they can choose from.

THIS is very true and a major cause of careers failing to launch in the wake of well received student or short films on the festival circuit. They're not going to give you a movie to make as the keys to the kingdom; you're going to have to provide your own.

 

[pulpfiction007]

So everyone more or less agrees. Great, what's the problem? This debate is mostly quibbling.

You're right...so let's make a list of things one could do to keep some production value and keep the budget down.

1. Use one or two GREAT locations vs several mediocre ones. (Benefits - No gas money spent going to thirty different spots, No time spent waiting for the right lighting, audio and lighting could be set and re set with minmal hassles. All time normally spent moving equipment could be thrown into really making the single location look good/fit the mood)
2. Use a small cast with a few really good actors vs multiple mediocre ones. (Benefits - less time and money spent trying to fill basic roles like waiter #1, thug #2, etc.)
3. Utilize fewer, but very well planned and executed angles/camera moves to expedite the shooting schedule. (Benefits - less time and money spent trying to do every angle/move in the book and less time editing)
4. Use a concept that utilizes the "what is not shown is often more powerful than what is" factor - (Benefits - less money on stunts/effects/etc) Examples - Signs, Psycho, Pulp Fiction, the original Alien, Pi (the idea is the powerful thing) Blair Witch. I know my examples aren't all low budget films, but anyway...it's a good technique.
5. Use a fairly low cost camera that is a proven "all around" performer with good image adjustment capability (HMC150 or similar) - (Benefits - less money on "fixing" the image in post, easy slow motion, good organic "filmic" quality, cheap recording media) MAYBE supplement with DSLR for certain shots.
6. Fill the location/house with good food (Benefit - It's a lot cheaper than eating out!)