Do you plan every single shot?

Shooter said:
Nothing by chance! Its all planned shot by shot....

Agency and client expect a full "breakdown", shotlist, storyboard , interpretation and presentation of the script in numerous meetings.

Art department requires detailed info so they can "create" and provide what is required for the shoot...before the shoot day. (Props, sets, sfx, model making etc)

Crew need to bring the equipment to be able to successfully achieve the shots. ( Lights, grip, audio, sfx etc)

Permits need obtaining and the authorities want to know what is planned , where and how long etc...

Efficient time management of expensive resources ... requires planning. eg Shot list and schedule.

Talent / actors need casting and booking appropriate to a script and intention. (incl rehearsal and block thru days)

Director needs a plan of approach.
D.P needs a "visual plan"
All HODs need to know what is planned

.........

The list is endless and varies. Basically...no surprises on the shoot day
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Well that makes sense, thanks for the info. So in your experience, there's no looking for "happy surprises" or good ideas the day of, it's all pretty much by the book? I've always wondered what TVC's, with their (presumably) short shooting schedules do about bad weather. It's not like you can plan for a cover set, right? So what happens if the weather guy just completely missed his mark and it's pouring out when you were expecting sunny skies?
 
For a pressured commercial shoot I am sure that Shooter has it right. Total planning.

But this requires huge experience on everyones part.

Many shoots i see my role as DP to get coverage that will edit - or present edit choices - specifically edit choices that will allow 'bending' of time/duration to hit edit marks - typically driven by the audio

I like to shoot to a sort of formula

For a typical two shot scene it could be OTS both characters, a wide of both, both alone, some stuff that has no lips, a CU of specific actions (the drawing of a gun, whatever)

Basically that formula will cut - so you dont need to 'plan' individual shots

It is most important to 'know' the story - for example the face of a killer may not be revealed until the end - so scene with a killer you know you must shoot him from behind, in silhouette whatever

Conversly every shot should tell you something new until the completion of the scene/film (otherwise it is not needed)

So if the director knows fully the purpose of each shot in telling his/her story then it kind of becomes a shot list and a plan!

S
 
ALWAYShave the entire film/commercial/music video shots COMPLETELYplanned out.
If I ever work on set and they dont have their ideas down, it loose it. HAHA.

Every angle, movement, lenses, etc. It may take a long time in pre-production but when on set things just flow!
This means having lots of shot lists, storyboards, blueprints/overhead diagrams, reference shots from other films, animated programs displaying shots and movements and whatever else I can think of to help visualize every thing happening.

Not only does this help me with knowing framing and how editing will look, but as a dop, it also helps to understand what lights are required, how to rig them, and much more.
 
sonofaresiii said:
Well that makes sense, thanks for the info. So in your experience, there's no looking for "happy surprises" or good ideas the day of,
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It's not that these can't happen. It's going into it with no plan, COUNTING on it, which is slobberingly foolish.

Plus, as Shooter points out, when shooting for a client, they must approve everything ahead of time, so there really aren't going to be surprises -- you're going to give them what they approved.
 
It think it depends on who does the planning.

Most non camera people dont really understand locations or camera moves and the like - of course some do

"as the car leaves pan down to a drop of blood on the floor"

really its not going to happen and look any good

S
 
morgan_moore said:
It think it depends on who does the planning.

Most non camera people dont really understand locations or camera moves and the like - of course some do

"as the car leaves pan down to a drop of blood on the floor"

really its not going to happen and look any good

S
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I can hear them now, "can't you just zoom in?" or better the declarative "... we can just zoom in" :(
 
...let alone the phrase "pan down" which is used so often (erroneously) that it is actually starting to sound legit. Groan.
 
sonofaresiii said:
Well that makes sense, thanks for the info. So in your experience, there's no looking for "happy surprises" or good ideas the day of, it's all pretty much by the book? I've always wondered what TVC's, with their (presumably) short shooting schedules do about bad weather. It's not like you can plan for a cover set, right? So what happens if the weather guy just completely missed his mark and it's pouring out when you were expecting sunny skies?
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Can only speak from my own experience on TVCs, but:

TVCs are specifically about addressing the needs of the client. It's not a creative short or feature film. You have representatives from the agency, and the client on set. The client and agency have spent a lot of time finetuning the details of the campaign, and are spending a lot of money to make sure you get it right. So it's all strictly planned, everybody has boards and you're shooting the boards.

For films it's different, it's more of a creative process - I like to discuss the mood and tone of each scene with the Director, as well as lighting styles, colours etc. We then hash out a comprehensive shot list which I transfer to the ShotLister app on my phone, so I know not only what shots are planned next but also what we still need to get. The shot list gets tweaked as the day goes on, and depending on the blocking, but unless you know what you're there to shoot everything will fall apart - not to mention the fact that your film is going to struggle to be scheduled if it's not known what shots you're going to get, how many shots, how much and what equipment you'll need.

In terms of weather, I don't think I've been on a TVC set that really depended on weather. One TVC I was on, we had a single day shoot with three company moves(!). We were able to gain access to and pre-light each location the day before, which helped. On the day, our first location was outdoors (6am start ;)) and it started to spit with rain as we were shooting. Wet weather covers went on and we finished up as quickly as possible. None of the shots really depended on weather, and the rain was so light that it didn't show up on screen anyway. We finished the day with only minimal overtime, which is not bad with three company moves and three meals.

Another TVC I was on was a three-day shoot and the schedule was simply shifted around, depending on when it was going to rain. I don't think I've ever been on a TVC where we've had to cancel. Certainly been on films where days have been cancelled because of wrong weather (and even days cancelled beforehand, only to find out on the day that the weatherman got it completely wrong, and the day was bright and sunny like we wanted..)
 
It's a pretty simply formula: the more experienced the filmmakers, the more you can "get away" with less planning. Being able to move on your feet and make lightning-fast calculations and recalculations is an important skill in this industry but it's not for everyone. What do you do when a scene isn't working, when the weather front changes, when the actor gets sick, when technical issues crop up? You have to punt, and the ability to change course intelligently, logically, creatively and calmly is very important. If you have the luxury of enough time and money, you can just call a wrap for the day and come back again tomorrow. I don't work on those jobs, much as I'd like to.

OBVIOUSLY it's great to be able to plan everything in advance, and it has proven to be the only way to get through some of the hyper-intensely scheduled jobs i've done. The more you know about what's coming up next and after that and after that, the more you can start balls rolling in that direction, when possible. But there are circumstances when you just have to punt.

I shot a Yahoo! webseries in December that got pushed into production with a terribly truncated prep schedule. The director and I had almost no time to discuss the actual scripts beforehand and as a team we were only able to scout half of the locations before shooting began. A significant amount of the time, we walked into a space we had never seen with no game plan in place, and a massive (12 to 18 pages) amount of work to day per day. There's no question it could have been more efficient with more time to plan, but we made it work. That's an extreme example, but the key is that many days one has to go into that mode on a much smaller scale and you have to be able to handle it. Relying on having everything buttoned down ahead of time means that you never develop the skill to think fast on your feet. Michael F. in particular: as you go along you will HAVE to learn to manage this scenario without "losing it"...!
 
If yahoo! dont have time to plan then 'down here in the dumps' the planning is even thinner.

I find a bad plan (by an non camera person) is worse than no plan.

S

and pan down - it was a joke :)
 
Planning is important, but I find the magic comes from taking those plans and running with ideas on set. Always be as prepared as possible, but never be afraid to explore on set. That is where the real creativity comes. Use your preplanned shots as a base, and then work from there. If all else fails, stick to the plan. If someone comes up with a great idea, or alt on set, go with it.

This is one reason people (directors and DP's) are against overly complicated pre-vis. You can't take into account the magic of filmmaking... those ideas or happy accidents that occur on set. It happens so often it's almost irrelevant to previs most films. Perhaps big CGI battles and etc, for pacing reasons and etc... but for most dramatic films, the imagination on set is something you can't replace before you are there.
 
Well put Ryan. Agreed.

Something that comes to mind only because I'm in a shotlisting session where we just referenced this: that great shot from The Shining where Jack is locked in the storeroom, with the camera on the ground looking up at him. In the Vivian Kubrick doc (found on the DVD and online), you see Stanley coming up with this shot on set, saying "what if we were to...." and getting on his back with the viewfinder. It blew my mind because I always imagined him working like Hitchcock or the Coen Brothers, fastidiously designing every shot ahead of time.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Well put Ryan. Agreed.

Something that comes to mind only because I'm in a shotlisting session where we just referenced this: that great shot from The Shining where Jack is locked in the storeroom, with the camera on the ground looking up at him. In the Vivian Kubrick doc (found on the DVD and online), you see Stanley coming up with this shot on set, saying "what if we were to...." and getting on his back with the viewfinder. It blew my mind because I always imagined him working like Hitchcock or the Coen Brothers, fastidiously designing every shot ahead of time.
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Even the Coen Brothers change on set. I remember Roger Deakins telling a story about how they had this big opening sequence to shoot, and instead Deakins suggested they just make it one long shot. They agreed and he said they finished the entire day before lunch! haha
 
If you guys will permit me to recount a story on this...I came in to do a day of Steadicam for the Coens on "Intolerable Cruelty". We did a master that turned into coverage, and then the corresponding coverage. As I hung the rig up after print was called on the second shot, Roger was already sticking out his hand: "Good job Charles, thanks for coming in". I was momentarily thrown--"want me to stick around, maybe something will come up that you could use Steadicam for?" He laughed. "Nah mate. It's done for the day". It was 11 a.m.

I saw the boards--the shot that I did was exactly what was boarded; no more, no less.

Also partially relevant, another story from my operating days: on the movie Big Fat Liar, we had a long Steadicam shot planned plus a bunch of coverage. As we started to rehearse the actors, it became apparent to all that we could just keep going in the Steadicam shot as a one'r. Took some planning and a number of takes, but like Ryan's story--wrapped by lunch! Here's that one: http://www.steadishots.org/shots_detail.cfm?shotID=146
 
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