Do I really NEED a mixer?

i worked for bbc here , we had shure at the office in the 90s
bbc standard is a nice place for ethics :-)
give me a brake , no one give a **** what you come with , if it ad 261 , sqn cooper or sanasox or sd , i say it riduculas pay for this mixer what they ask for .
all the national companies usually go with local production or with historical products . so maybe the reason sqn still exist is the support from bbc they have , other wise i dont see any soundman with head on his shoulders taking 6000 to buy it .
what do the France 2 use , bbc standard ,hehe ?
Ian ask freelances not bbc employs
 
ian hunter said:
mmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

you looks in shock , by the way the pound to $ is over 1,9
Ian i know that decent meal in London( or icel of main)cost you about 30 queued
but it no reason i have to pay it to the sqn workers , they can take cheeps if they like to sell :-)
 
Okay Mike, I have a different idea for you. First off, I gotta go with Oleg on this one, the SD302 is worth getting. I was in your similar situation a few months ago, I spent weeks wondering whether to get a $500 mixer or break the bank and get the SD302, and boy am I glad I went with the SD302, it is incredible.

But, I can understand having the need right now but not the funds. So, I'd recommend getting this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=292990&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

It's a one channel mixer. Put your lav straight into your HVX, that's something you really aren't going to need to adjust the volume on, set it up and leave it. Then you have this one channel adjuster for only $300 that will get you by on the Oktava until you can afford the SD302.
 
Hey Shawn,

That is a nice new option. Thanks!

how about the SD MM-1? Then the recordist can have cans.

Why not go with the Mix Pre $665 (vs. $1200 for he 302)
 
If you can afford the MixPre, then go ahead and get it. I've heard it's nearly as nice as the Sd302 except just 2 channels in (honestly I've never used all 3 channels of my sd302). Then when you want the 302 you could flip the mixpre on eBay or here for at least $500.
 
I think I have decided to go with the SD Mix Pre in hopes I can get by with it for a year or two and just plan to hire a sound recordist (or use a regular mixer) for anything this can't handle. Is there anything critical I will be missing out on if I go this route?

Do I really need a $160 bag or can I just use a strap (indoors)?
 
ii guess you can find a plenty of pouches you can find in 20-25 $ range for indoor /outdoor use , the cables hols you can do by your self
 
hey Mike, It might be your lucky day! Go to ebay right now and type in 'field mixer'
I see two fp-24's, one sd mixpre. I believe these will even daisey-chain to the 302, so technically not just a temp loss of money!
 
Thanks! I keep going back and forth in my head if the mixpre is good enough. I wonder what I miss out on if I don't get the 302. I don't want to go crazy worrying about this. I still think I will go for the mixpre since the 302 is so much more.

I will look on ebay.

oleg found me some used mixers I am looking at too!
 
Hi Mike,

Okay, I'll go against the pack here - I'm overdue for a good pecking anyway. You said you were shooting documentary style A/B roll mostly corporate and schools. So it sounds like most of your work will be using your NLE in the production phase, with lots of editing .

If time isn't of the essence, I'd want to have as many recording channels as possible. So if I were doing a two camera shoot, each with two mics, I'd record *four* channels of audio. Even better, if I could use my portable WAV/MP3 recorder with backup mics, I'd record *six* channels of audio - six DIFFERENT channels.

For those that have to turn over a audio to the producer asap, sure using a 442 mixer is mandatory to get the best mix on the fly. But since you'll be doing lots of slicing and dicing with your A/B roll anyway, if you have extra channels to work with you'll be able to work on each channel individually, tweaking them in software, choosing between one track and another, etc.

It doesn't sound like you're only wearing the audio engineer hat, also doing the video, lighting, directing, grip, whatever... I doubt when you're rolling, continually tweaking with mixer settings is your sole concern. So why not record "early and often", mixing it all in post?

Sure, this might take extra time if you find one track works better in a given situation, but then again, doing so might save your bacon if you weren't side-tracked with all the other hats you're already wearing. The other potential downside is that it's not practical to monitor all audio channels in real time. But realistically, if you've monitored the backup tracks well during setup, you'll do well to focus on monitoring the primary unit. You can still dynamically adjust those two audio tracks in real time. And in your school environment, you'll usually have a good sense if a teacher or child has audio operating outside the range during the setup validation/monitoring on the secondary recording channels. Besides, in your school environment, I doubt it would be a logistical or financial catastropy if for some reason you had redo a segment.

In summary, while 442 mixers might be the cat's meow for the movie industry or others with a dedicated crew, I'm unconvinced that for one-person shops with internal clients that mixers are a slam-dunk no brainer. Okay gang, I'm off the soapbox so let the pecking begin ;-)

Regards, Michael
 
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Thanks Michael,

You are right about using as many tracks as I can. I am not mixing things on the fly hardly at all. Mostly I want a mixer to let the boom op hear what he is doing as well as to get better pre's. Most everything I will shoot with the boom will be nat sound. Another use I want is when we are doing a multi-cam interview, I want to put my lav on 1 channel, oktava on the other and split the outputs of channel 1 and 2 from the mixer so that it records the same great audio onto both cams. That way both cams have the lav on channel 1 and the boom on channel 2.

I am down to the choice between the Mixpre and the 302. I am looking at a used 302 also. I want to know what situations you may need the 302's extra features especially the selectable line/mic level outputs.

Hanging around here and talking about this stuff is a lot of fun!
 
I'm on the fence between these two as well.
One difference I noticed is meter ballistics. The 302 meter displays peak levels (PPM), average levels (VU) or a combination of both. The mixpre only displays peak levels and has a much shorter range of display LEDs. I would think that being able to see both average levels and where your peaks are hitting would be ideal. I wonder if viewing only peak levels might be a bit frustrating. Can anyone comment on this?
 
I just read both manuals back to back (starting with the mixpre) and there is really no comparison between the two. I highly reccomend doing the same. I don't know what you are doing and what kinds of budgets you have, but if you can afford it get the 302 (even if it is a stretch). The mixpre would be good enogh for some indie/personal projects.
 
I got some other great responese on PM, so here they are



"
Originally Posted by MattinSTL
Mike... this is a tough one. Currently I have a mixpre that I'm getting close to selling in order to buy a 302... in my pro bag I have a 442, which is 4 channels and $2500. For many shoots the mixpre has been enough for me, but I'm at a point where I want to have 3 channels even on low-budget to no-budget jobs... hence my desire to upgrade.

Something you may want to consider is getting a used Mixpre that you can sell in 3-6 months or a year... you won't lose hardly ANYTHING on one. Right now there's a really nice one on ebay sitting at $450... you DO know how to "snipe" an auction right? Most people know this, but you decide your MAX bid and bid in the last 15 seconds of the auction... then you either get it or you don't. I wouldn't pay more then $530 for that mixer on ebay, but I'll bet it goes really close to that. The guy may have his reserve at about $551... so I'd maybe go that high. (I'm saying $551 instead of $550 just in case... and guessing of course.)

Anyway... if you sell it in a year it will still go for $450+... maybe even $500+... maybe even a full refund through selling!

I bought an FP24 (same as mixpre, but shure) for $400 from ebay... I upgraded it to accept rechargeables (any newer mixers will come with this ability as standard)... and anyway, I'm POSITIVE that I can sell it for AT LEAST $350... so see? What's the risk? You can get a mixpre and then decide later if you want to upgrade.

I'll tell you right now that I LOVE the 442... even with the weight I'd rather have one of those for my personal use... which is why I'm getting a 302, but what sucks is the 442 does some really cool things that a 302 doesn't... but the 302 does some really cool things that the mixpre doesn't. So they kind of have you by the balls on these things. They are overpriced in the general scheme of things, but not when you look at what you get and the permanent value. No matter what you do you will get a higher percentage of your money back at resale time with one of these mixers... higher then any other gear you bought. What else can you buy, use for 2 years, then get over 80% of your money back?

So the decision, while tough, isn't crucial. If I had the freedom to bring the 442 home for personal use I wouldn't want the 302, but since I can't... it's been high on my list of desires.

I'm sorry if this didn't help you, but you can't go wrong either way.

-matt


and....



Hey if you're getting PRO work then you NEED to get the 302... I should have mentioned that before. When I said it didn't matter between mixpre and 302... etc. I was totally thinking about somebody doing indi and personal stuff. If people are HIRING you to do sound then you NEED the 302... the reason I have had the mixpre is because on pro work I have a 442! So... sorry I didn't say that... if you're getting paid to do sound more then once per month then you want the 302.

-matt


"


I ordered my 302 today from Trew. I will let you all know how right you are!

Thanks so much again!!
 
Mike, I would say if you are looking for something to use as an one man band then less can be more. You won't be able to properly monitor or mix with the 442 or the 302 while operating the camera. You can mount the Mixpre on most cameras and use while filming. If you audio set-ups gets complex your screwed but for simple stuff that a one man band can handle the Mixpre might be your best bet.

As many of us like to point out, if you do find the Mixpre isn't enough for you, the upgrade path is not too finanically punishing. It's been pointed out that you could sell that type of gear easily here at DVXusers...yet no one ever seems to be selling theirs. :)

Cheers
 
One-man band is super hard even with a mixpre... for one-man band stuff I actually usually run my mic's right into the DVX and then gaffer my level dials down (thin strip with a folded under bit at the end that we call a "tab" so that you can unstick and restick it fast)... then if the situation changes and I have to "ride" levels I just tweek the dials. Obviously I keep my headphones on the entire time.

Since this member posted the text of a PM exchange that we had... and it's kind of long... I want to point out that in that last paragraph... fourth sentence... "If people are HIRING you to do sound then you NEED the 302."

When I was responding to messages nobody said anything about one-man band... meaning video, lighting, sound all done by one single guy. If that's the case then even the mixpre is going to be hard to watch while he pays attention to the other stuff... and it's not much smaller or lighter weight. Bottom line is that I hope this member isn't planning on doing one-man band with a complex setup. It's a recipe for disaster... for a lone shooter the odds of overall success are higher if you just run the mics into the cam. My .02 and personal experience.
 
Hi Matt and Wabbit,

I am not doing everything alone. I will have someone booming when I do b-roll (and if i can't get someone that day, I will probably go into the cam). The other thing I want this for is interviews so I don't shake the cam when I make adjustments. I can show you some work if you want. I have been doing this for a while, I just really want to hone my sound.
 
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