DJI Ronin 4D Camera | 6K & 8K

[jonpais]

If there are any weaknesses in a system, whether it's with sharpness, noise in the shadows, banding, weak dynamic range or poor highlight roll off - those problems aren't going to be any less pronounced in HDR. So it's with great interest that I listened to Messerschmidt - an HDR evangelist - talk about how the DJI footage looked in Dolby Vision.

"ProRes RAW it's totally new - for me anyway - you know I just started, that's a completely new format for me. We opened it in BaseLight, which opens it natively. It seemed to have plenty of dynamic range. It was sharp, we didn't see any aliasing issues, we didn't see any banding or breakup. It's clearly got plenty of bit depth and dynamic range. And we were looking at it in HDR actually, so we looked at it in Dolby PQ in DCI-P3 and it looked fabulous, it was on par with anything else, for sure". -Erik Messerschmidt

 

[Teddy_Dem]

I think its takes the gimbal idea in a good direction. Everything is ready to go put a rangefinder prime on it like a 35mm 1.4 Zeiss or Leica with follow focus ring on it. The nice thing its ready to go no 1 hour fiddling around. Built in NDs!!! if the color science is halfway decent this could be a very interesting option. I might even start liking gimbals.

There is some downloadable sample footage on their website. I haven't had a chance to pull them into Davinci Resolve, but they posted ProRes RAW, ProRes 4444, ProRes 422HQ and H264:

https://www.dji.com/ronin-4d/samples

 

[Thomas Smet]

I don't really see this is a main camera but the ultimate tool for certain types of shots. The price is a bit stiff for most people that complain about a $2,000 camera and its a bit large to use all the time. For action shoots its amazing. For narrative maybe not so much. Thats not to say it can't be used for just about anything. Just that sometimes a one size fits all is not a one size fits all. There is still l place for larger body form factor cameras and there is still la place for small form factor DSLR like cameras.

As amazing as the specs are the one spec that really stands out for me is the over 10 lb weight of this setup. A 4 axis gimbal is pretty darn amazing until you factor in lugging around that 10 lb setup for the kind of shooting that would benefit from 4 axis stabilization. This is not a haul it around hand held for 8 hours for a travel doc kind of camera no matter how much you can bench press. It can be used for a few minutes tops before needing a rest. Those of us arm strength challenged may never be able to get good use for a run&gun shot out of it. I personally would rather use a small lightweight DSLR camera on a more compact gimbal for a fraction of the weight for any significant length of time. I could see owners if this camera eventually feeling the same way and investing or keeping a smaller form factor gimbal rig when this beast is just going to weigh more than is realistic for the situation. So no its not the last gimbal camera one would ever buy.

Then there is the cost. Awesome for $7,200 but that puts it out of reach of many of the shooters that would want a camera like this for run&gun. Back when I did weddings I did use Sony DSR-300 and DSR-500 cameras which cost more but that isn't as much of a reality anymore. I could see a lot of wedding and other sports and travel producers wanting a camera like this but never being able to afford it. Those that can afford it may not have a need for such features in a camera or use those features frequently.

As amazing as wireless transmission and 4 axis gimbals are some narrative projects may not have any use for those features at all. so then one is investing in a $8k package to basically do what they can do with more affordable packages. Plus like others have mentioned its not like you can't add a gimbal or wireless transmission to a lot of affordable cameras. Control of the camera settings from the monitor is cool but many cameras have had that capability from a mobile app for years. Of course its not all packaged in one tight perfect package but a lot of these capabilities can be had for a much lower cost. The LIDAR is really neat but experienced focus pullers managed to focus manually for a century without it. Its an amazing tool to help the process but I wouldn't exactly call it a must have. Its a neat to have.

Amazing camera but taking a step back it may be a little too much and not exactly practical. I think a camera like the P4k was a lot more revolutionary giving a true cinema camera and usable raw format to the masses at an insane price point. There are thousands of killer P4k gimbal samples out there that look equally rock solid and impressive and the setup was under $2,000.

 

[ahalpert]

I'm probably at 8 lbs or so on the ronin-s a7siii setup with focus motor, external monitor, and side handle. And that's without lens. So, I don't think that 10 lbs without lens is a crazy number. The difference is that I can reach my desired camera height with my arms tucked in and down in a low-strain position. Raising arms to chest height is much more straining. So, I would see this being used with another support rig or else for brief takes

it's not an insane price difference for this vs a p4k + gimbal, depending on if you look at it as a ratio or in absolute difference. High ratio, but not that many $k's. But its definitely an open question what market this will serve. It may be too expensive for some markets and too cheap for others

it does feel like they're setting it up as an A cam by also showing it in tripod and handheld configurations

 

[Run&Gun]

I'm probably at 8 lbs or so on the ronin-s a7siii setup with focus motor, external monitor, and side handle. And that's without lens. So, I don't think that 10 lbs without lens is a crazy number. The difference is that I can reach my desired camera height with my arms tucked in and down in a low-strain position. Raising arms to chest height is much more straining. So, I would see this being used with another support rig or else for brief takes

it's not an insane price difference for this vs a p4k + gimbal, depending on if you look at it as a ratio or in absolute difference. High ratio, but not that many $k's. But its definitely an open question what market this will serve. It may be too expensive for some markets and too cheap for others

it does feel like they're setting it up as an A cam by also showing it in tripod and handheld configurations

I definitely do not think this is designed for the “run around all day with a gimbal” crowd, as evidenced by the design and price. It looks to be designed for scripted or at least semi-planned, “short” takes, scenes, parts/elements of scenes. But I did see it rigged in a shoulder mount configuration on NewsShooter.

 

[ahalpert]

I definitely do not think this is designed for the “run around all day with a gimbal” crowd, as evidenced by the design and price. It looks to be designed for scripted or at least semi-planned, “short” takes, scenes, parts/elements of scenes. But I did see it rigged in a shoulder mount configuration on NewsShooter.

sort of sounds like a distinction without a difference. when I used to AC on scripted narrative, the steadicam ops were total workhorses (with canteloupe calves) and even though they were doing planned takes, they were flying on and off all day. just the rehearsals really multiplied the operating time

 

[rob norton]

it's not an insane price difference for this vs a p4k + gimbal, depending on if you look at it as a ratio or in absolute difference. High ratio, but not that many $k's. But its definitely an open question what market this will serve. It may be too expensive for some markets and too cheap for others

Don't forget your handful of TB 50 batteries.

It'd be cool if it eliminated the steps usually seen with an easyrig.

 

[ozmorphasis]

 

[rob norton]

Haha nice. A Steadicam arm looks like the best option if coming up or down during a shot is important vs. that thing looks just like a readyrig arm where height adjustments can't really happen mid-shot.

 

[ahalpert]

Don't forget your handful of TB 50 batteries.

Meh. Each $180 battery provides up to 2.5 hours of capture time. (It doesn't have to literally fly like a drone!) Let's say that batteries add $500 to the difference in package price.

 

[ozmorphasis]

Haha nice. A Steadicam arm looks like the best option if coming up or down during a shot is important vs. that thing looks just like a readyrig arm where height adjustments can't really happen mid-shot.

I definitely adjust height during shots on readyrig setups all the time. But yeah, if you are talking about Trinity levels of adjustment from low to high, then the readyrig setups are no good. Maybe you meant easyrig? Easyrigs are too choppy when making height adjustments to make it part of a move, but readyrigs are kind of made for that, no? The Vega version is supposed to be even better for that, but I've never tried it. Only the proarms on the readyrig.

I briefly had the Tilta Float for my RS2, but sold it as it was too fiddly and didn't feel like it was a totally finished product. That combined with their absolutely horrendous product rollout/delivery long after they take your money has me a bit skeptical about all of these otherwise very cool tilta/dji ecosystem products. Their prices are insanely low too. Just wish they were a bit more refined and that they delivered on orders within the same decade of the order date.

 

[rob norton]

Meh. Each $180 battery provides up to 2.5 hours of capture time. (It doesn't have to literally fly like a drone!) Let's say that batteries add $500 to the difference in package price.

We'll have to wait for more tests. I thought I heard 1.5 hours on a YT video. Interesting footnote from the product page:

"15. Measured with fully charged TB50 battery in a 26°C environment with the gimbal balanced, equipment in a level and stationary state, the Z-Axis
disabled, and continuously recording in RAW. Operating time will be reduced when Ronin 4D is in motion or the Z-Axis is enabled."

You could probably get by with only 1 or 2 batteries if used at select points throughout the day though.

 

[rob norton]

I definitely adjust height during shots on readyrig setups all the time. But yeah, if you are talking about Trinity levels of adjustment from low to high, then the readyrig setups are no good. Maybe you meant easyrig? Easyrigs are too choppy when making height adjustments to make it part of a move, but readyrigs are kind of made for that, no? The Vega version is supposed to be even better for that, but I've never tried it. Only the proarms on the readyrig.

I briefly had the Tilta Float for my RS2, but sold it as it was too fiddly and didn't feel like it was a totally finished product. That combined with their absolutely horrendous product rollout/delivery long after they take your money has me a bit skeptical about all of these otherwise very cool tilta/dji ecosystem products. Their prices are insanely low too. Just wish they were a bit more refined and that they delivered on orders within the same decade of the order date.

That's a shame about the float. At some level I'm put off by pricing that's too low, especially if it sort of seems too good to be true.

I've seen the promise of low to high moves from ready rigs like from cinemilled's examples - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0dCxgniJ34&t=17s

I could be wrong but the move seems to happen in stages or steps and I'm assuming it helps that Pedro is probably a pretty strong person.

But I was mostly speaking about the RR in its normal configuration - aren't you essentially choosing your height then you have a small range to work with?

Easyrig would have to be out of the question unless the z-axis works wonders for the choppy adjustments!

 

[ozmorphasis]

That's a shame about the float. At some level I'm put off by pricing that's too low, especially if it sort of seems too good to be true.

I've seen the promise of low to high moves from ready rigs like from cinemilled's examples - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0dCxgniJ34&t=17s

I could be wrong but the move seems to happen in stages or steps and I'm assuming it helps that Pedro is probably a pretty strong person.

But I was mostly speaking about the RR in its normal configuration - aren't you essentially choosing your height then you have a small range to work with?

Easyrig would have to be out of the question unless the z-axis works wonders for the choppy adjustments!

You are choosing a height in the sense of a balance point. In other words, you are definitely making an adjustment decision to determine where it feels almost weightless and where it needs a bit more force to maintain the height, but the actual vertical movement that you make after making adjustments is very smooth and definitely worthy of smooth moves during a take. That's how many people use it when attached to a ring style gimbal. I don't think there's much of a learning curve with that aspect of it. It's pretty much just how it's designed. No steps and quite smooth. Of course, it's not balanced in a way that is designed to remove footsteps, but in this case, that's what the chicken head is for, courtesy of DJI's new poultry department. ; )

I generally think of the readyrig as having about a foot or so of comfortable vertical travel. Not sure what this new Tilta is designed for in terms of range. I admire the commitment to coming up with all of these new solutions for very real shooting scenarios, but yeah, I'd happily pay twice the price to get a rock solid product.

 

[ahalpert]

We'll have to wait for more tests. I thought I heard 1.5 hours on a YT video. Interesting footnote from the product page:

"15. Measured with fully charged TB50 battery in a 26°C environment with the gimbal balanced, equipment in a level and stationary state, the Z-Axis
disabled, and continuously recording in RAW. Operating time will be reduced when Ronin 4D is in motion or the Z-Axis is enabled."

You could probably get by with only 1 or 2 batteries if used at select points throughout the day though.

On the dji specs page, it quotes 2.5 hours of runtime in the aforementioned conditions (recording but stationary). Not bad! (1.5 hrs ro charge)

I think it comes with 1. Let's say you buy 4 more. You're basically up to $8K for batteries and camera/gimbal, excluding media and lenses.

Let's say the P4K is $2K with batteries and gimbal. (Maybe you could do it with $1800, I dunno.)
​​
so, while the 4D is 4x the price, which is a big ratio (but less once you factor in media and lenses), it's only about $6k more. Let's say you get 4 years of use out of the thing, then you're paying $1500/year more. Less if you can resell them after

so while it's a larger investment, I don't think it's necessarily out of reach for the pocket crowd. The question, as always, is will you use it enough to merit the expense

Personally, at my budget tier, i wouldn't spend this much money on an accessory or, essentially, a support rig for specialized shots. But if I could think of it as an A camera that also gimbals, it starts to make more sense. (That being said, even in whatever tripod mode it has, I don't think you can mount a real telephoto, so it's probably too inflexible to be an actual A cam)

 

[ozmorphasis]

On the dji specs page, it quotes 2.5 hours of runtime in the aforementioned conditions (recording but stationary). Not bad! (1.5 hrs ro charge)

I think it comes with 1. Let's say you buy 4 more. You're basically up to $8K for batteries and camera/gimbal, excluding media and lenses.

Let's say the P4K is $2K with batteries and gimbal. (Maybe you could do it with $1800, I dunno.)
​​
so, while the 4D is 4x the price, which is a big ratio (but less once you factor in media and lenses), it's only about $6k more. Let's say you get 4 years of use out of the thing, then you're paying $1500/year more. Less if you can resell them after

so while it's a larger investment, I don't think it's necessarily out of reach for the pocket crowd. The question, as always, is will you use it enough to merit the expense

Personally, at my budget tier, i wouldn't spend this much money on an accessory or, essentially, a support rig for specialized shots. But if I could think of it as an A camera that also gimbals, it starts to make more sense. (That being said, even in whatever tripod mode it has, I don't think you can mount a real telephoto, so it's probably too inflexible to be an actual A cam)

This would definitely be a specialty cam, but the thing is, there's nothing wrong with having your specialty cam cost more than your "A" cam these days if the final tally makes sense in terms of the business model.

The Pocket cams are fantastic in terms of image quality, so shooting A roll on them is great, and their annoyances are less of an issue when you are on sticks. Power, Dangling SSD cables if you want cheap media, etc. So, you can have a great image for more controlled shots, still at a very low cost, and then a more expensive solution for the stuff that is a pain to grab quickly (B-roll, specialty movement shots, etc).

I own several pocket cams these days, so I try to have one very gimbal friendly in terms of plate, CFAST card instead of SSD, etc. It's still nowhere near as fast and nimble as what this device promises to be, at least conceptually. Time will tell.

In other words, I agree with you that it's not really THAT much more expensive, as long as it is being regularly used for paid work. In my case it would be, but I am definitely still gonna wait to see how it unfolds and maybe rent one, assuming the chicken hasn't broken off of the rental. I definitely don't see this as an A Cam for my needs.

The fact that I can put my leica R's on there and control focus does bring up some questions in terms of longer shoot days for creative shoots that are more in the music video direction. Lots of short takes over a long day will need some support to make it practical for my body, so it goes back to the Tilta ecosystem pics I posted above. If you end up needing a ton of gack to make it work for a long day, then we're back to the question of why use this in the first place instead of a traditional pieced together solution. I guess the answer is that any pieced together solution that works VERY well and delivers great image is really a steadicam setup if you also want the Z axis taken care of properly. As mentioned in my previous post, the Tilta float is not quite there IMO.

If this device takes care of the Z axis and a support device is released that is easy to throw on quickly, it really will be a game changer for many users.

 

[ahalpert]

The only thing is that for me with an fx3/a7siii and ronin-s, the z-axis isn't a big problem if I'm using my arms and legs correctly. At least, it's not something I feel needs to improve.

EXCEPT for close-range shooting. If I'm shooting something at high magnification, then any frame shifts that aren't caused by angular rotation (since the gimbal only corrects angular rotation) effect the shot just as handheld shake would. (This happens in wider shots too, just much less noticeably.) So, z-axis would be useful there. But it wouldn't do anything for my side-to-side shaking or forwards-backwards.

So personally I feel like the z-axis correction is either unnecessary or not enough. I suppose that if I could combine it with a rig that minimizes those other movements, it could be cool. But i love the liberty and flexibility of freehanding the gimbal

 

[icarusfilm]

the fact that it takes all the fiddling away is worth the money, Also makes it a great rental unit. Overall I think its a step in the right direction. Just been able to pul this out of a box switch it on and shoot makes it very appealing. 7k+ is pocket change for the functionality it offers.

 

[ahalpert]

This would definitely be a specialty cam, but the thing is, there's nothing wrong with having your specialty cam cost more than your "A" cam these days if the final tally makes sense in terms of the business model.

The Pocket cams are fantastic in terms of image quality, so shooting A roll on them is great, and their annoyances are less of an issue when you are on sticks. Power, Dangling SSD cables if you want cheap media, etc. So, you can have a great image for more controlled shots, still at a very low cost, and then a more expensive solution for the stuff that is a pain to grab quickly (B-roll, specialty movement shots, etc).

This makes a lot of sense... I just wonder about the opportunity cost. If there's a different camera you'd consider buying and making your A camera instead... such as an FX6 or FX9, or a c300mk3 or c500mk2... but right, if you're totally pleased with a pocket in its role, and you just want something for gimbal...

I dunno, I'm still not sold on that concept. why not buy an extra pocket and leave it built on gimbal, not just ready to build on gimbal. I have 2 little gimbals now (ronin-s and weebill-s) and I leave them built with 2 cameras (a7siii and fx3) and 2 different lens options (such as 70-180 and a 50). I was inspired by seeing wedding photographers wielding 2 cameras simultaneously with different primes. and now, beyond weddings, I bring this set-up to any gimbal-specific jobs I do. or to an interview that needs gimbal b-roll. I operate the fs7 on a good fluid head and leave 1 or 2 cameras unmanned on gimbals on light stands, ready to rock and roll later.

if your purpose is just to have a gimbal camera ready to rock and roll, why not buy an extra pocket and a gimbal for way less money and leave it built? it will be lighter. you could buy 2 such rigs for less money than the ronin 4D. the 4D has to be qualitatively better in terms of camera IQ or gimbal movement for it to make sense to me. which maybe it is, I dunno. but then I'd want to make it my A camera...

 

[jonpais]

the fact that it takes all the fiddling away is worth the money, Also makes it a great rental unit. Overall I think its a step in the right direction. Just been able to pul this out of a box switch it on and shoot makes it very appealing. 7k+ is pocket change for the functionality it offers.

Agree 100%. The DJI 4D is a beast!

Swappable lens mounts; wireless transmission for focus pulling; LIDAR; exquisite color with files that are very flexible in post; that focus knob!; that you can run full tilt boogie with this contraption and the stabilization is incredible; full frame 6K and 8K; good color rendition in low light; great highlight roll off; excellent dynamic range; 9 stops of ND; and a very reasonable price.

This is no mere Pocket on a gimbal, that is too funny.

That DJI consulted with the top professionals in the field, had them work with several prototypes before bringing it to market - the end result shows.