DIY - multi-purpose LED light

I have been wanting to measure the LED light against a tungsten light source. What is the "tungsten wattage equivalent"? Today I tested the Bescor 12 V (100watt) light i have against the LED.
http://www.adorama.com/BOMK12.html


I projected both lights at a white wall in a dark room at equal distance. Then i used an SLR camera to take meter readings. For the Bescor, I took reading from the brightest spot & for the LED, i have more freedom to take reading cuz its a much wider, & more even light source. The meter reading were the exactly the same.

But the LED has obvious advantages
1. its much cooler, the bescor was really hot after the 5 min test
2. LED consumes about 9 watts
3. the light source is very even & wide
4. LEDs are much more robust
5. the color temp is closer to daylight.
6. has a dimmer

I also went to a couple of fabrication shops today & got some costing for a limited run. The units will be laser cut & powder coated matt black. The cost is US$250 for the light, all in & assembled. DHL shipping is US$40

But I gotta gather enough interested parties before I approach the shop again:)
 
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CK... your project looks great! You really did a good job on it!

Have you ever seen the Vidleds? www.vidled.com

I have FOUR of them now... buying each of them one at a time... and I'm still going to get more. To say that I'm happy with Vidled would be the understatement of the year. I'll be surprised if the cost of your light won't have to be even higher then projected.

This is the whole reason that I haven't been selling my own lights lately... they are so much work to build and they cost me so much that I find it's hardly worth it in the end... I've been trying to come up with something else that's more versatile and easier to build... because the challenge isn't only in making something great... the challenge is in sustainability. It's hard to make something great, at a price to compete with a company that has 100 times the finances for R&D and development, and then continue to build and evolve the product while selling it for a competitive price. Trust me that is hard to do.

That's the only reason I mention Vidled... they are a smaller company then some of the big boys... but they've already proven that they will be around for a long time and the product is A) very effective and well-engineered... B) evolving through R&D over time... C) extremely competitive on price... D) incredibly durable... almost indestructable in fact.

The other thing that you need to check out is that leds themselves vary a TON from one to the next. They can be from a few cents each up to a few dollars each... the output and longevity of leds determines the cost per each which is why I would really like to see some footage on this project... just state the f-stop and shutter speed and then either set the WB using a white card (and state that you did this) or set it for 5600k... then get in a 100% dark room with no other light source. If you get a chance to put up a short clip I would love to see the fruits of your labor!

Also I'll give you a personal tip on gathering up interested parties... be sure to either get paid up front or get a deposit before you put a grand on your credit card... or be prepared to have some extra lights and be willing to wait it out. I hate to say this, but the fact is that on this board the ratio of people who say they're buying versus those who actually do... is 4:1 at best. All I'm saying is that if you get 12 people who say they will absolutely buy one of these lights... don't get 12 of them done unless you have non-refundable deposits for those 12... or again, be willing to sit on some of them for a little while. If this comes across as negative trust me... I'm only telling you to help you... I sell a lot of different products that I've developed for video and I get requests for things all the time... there are a bunch of PMs back and forth with a salvo of questions... then after a week of communication I never hear from them again. I'm sure you are ALREADY getting hammered with PMs about this light and people saying that they will absolutely, positively buy one... "how soon can I get one... and by the way how did you do this or that... can you give me a website?"

Am I right? :)

(If not then just wait a week or so... trust me, at this point I know how this goes...)
 
His design has more than twice as much LEDs than the Vidleds, of course that doesn´t say much about the actual output, considering all the different LEDs out there - but it looks promising...
 
Yeah I saw the LED count... but that's why I said I'd like to see some footage with stated f-stop and shutter speed. Then I can compare that realistically with the results I'm getting now.

Imagine one of the old style markee (sp?) signs in Vegas... if what the hotel owner wants is lumens then the number of bulbs isn't as important as the efficiency and/or wattage of each individual bulb as it relates to lumen output. All things being equal I would rather have more LEDs per square inch to provide a more even spread of light from the source... but before I chalk it up to "more is better" I would like to be sure that it really is.

As videographers we care about the purity of the light and the color temp... plus the total output... and finally the efficiency. How long will it run at max output? What is max output? How does it look on camera? How well does the dimming function work?

This is why I say "footage please!"

There was some thread a while back in the DIY adapters or something and everybody was clamoring around this guy's project... then Hudson pops in and says "hey cool!... what no footage?... then who cares."

Now I'm not that cold hearted... but I am from Missouri, the "Show Me State"... and I would like to see some results in order to make a realistic judgement. Since LEDs come in so many types, lumens, and wattages... footage is pretty much mandatory for me to get excited.
 
Point. Matt, the Vidleds seem to be designed primarily as on-camera lights...have you had much success using them as a standard lighting kit? How much hard light can you get out of them? Do they work better when used like flourescent fixtures? What's the worst and best features about them, respectively? I've been wondering about LED fixtures for a while but haven't had a chance to play with any (obviously).
 
HappyGobo... I don't want to totally hijack this thread... but I just want to see some footage from CK's led light! Everybody gets like 10mb of upload on DVXuser (or something like that) now don't they? Otherwise email me a small clip and I'll host it on my own site.

The best way for me to show you what the vidleds can do is to post a clip. I got 4 so that I could use them as a standard light kit... but realize that these are not going to replace flos or HMIs... or even a tungsten kit. The point of battery powered LED lighting is to get light in places you otherwise couldn't and at times you otherwise couldn't. I actually WILL use a couple of them in conjunction with normal lights... for BG details, rim/hair, or effects. I can easily hide these things around a set and dial in the brightness to bring life to key objects that would otherwise be lost in the BG.

The best feature about them is the quality of the light output. I have two of the Deluxe in daylight and two of the Cooleds in the standard config... for me neither is the superior choice. They both have advantages and disadvantages in comparison to each other. If I get more of these (which I seriously might) then I'll probably go with more of the standard versions... only because I already have the deluxe... what I like about the deluxe is the all-in-one simplicity. There's nothing to lose or get caught on anything... you just pop it on the cam and turn it on as needed (and adjust the brightness as needed). This is an area where shoots go well or go to hell... complexity ruins a lot of projects... so the more simple your tools can be the more likely you are for success! But the downside of the deluxe is that you have about 1.5 hours of run-time at max brightness... my method is to turn the light on and off to preserve the battery and in that case it's not usually a problem anyway... but in extreme cases I suppose it could be. I can have one charging in the car while I'm using the other... then I have the option of endless swaps... which eliminates this concern (but I guess that's probably kind of extreme for most people).

I just got the Cooleds recently... so I'm really digging them right now. They remind me of HMIs... you would have to gel them slightly to match daylight but I doubt I'll ever have to. I actually LIKE the HMI-like look of them... on-cam that pushes the color towards the blue side of daylight balance, but it makes for a really good lighting tool for the BG and rim/hair light... plus effects. I got the bolt kit to put two of them together along with the Y-cable and the DVX-battery adapter (2 of those actually)... and so far I've just kept the two Cooleds bolted together and used that as my "big light" for the portable light kit. The disadvantage of this light is the complexity of running a short wire to the little battery mount... but the advantage is phenominal run-time using my DVXuser batteries! You can run one of these for about 6 HOURS on one battery! Daa-yum!~ Also, on the Vidled site it says that the Cooled is significantly brighter then the Dayled... and that my friend, is no lie. Two of these together packs a crazy punch!

If I can get a horror fest entry banged out in about a week total (busy shooting month) then it will be lit almost entirely with these things... and then you'll see what they can do in a practical application. Right now I'm in love with these things... I wish I could afford a dozen of 'em. FREEDOM is the key reason... to be able to get a professional looking setup in the middle of nowhere is REALLY valuable for me in particular. I'm shooting a horror feature that started a couple of weeks ago... but on the 10th of this month (this weekend) we start a MARATHON of shooting... we have the original Jason in town for one week... so it will be non-stop shooting to suit his short stay. The vidleds will be with me the entire time... and for much of the shoot we will be miles away from any power... so that should tell you how much faith I have in these things.
 
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I agree with Mattin STL about the value of LED lights in shooting at far out places. I used the LED lights shooting an episode of a horror series up in the mountains of Java & last month, I shot a HD travelogue in Koh Samui, Thailand. The night scenes in a Thai boxing ring & clubs were all done with a lighting assist running the LED light next to me.

I've been dying to post some video clips but my video editor & I have been busy trying to Online 2 Discovery docus the last one week. Things should clear up by tmw & if my editor is still alive, i can have the clips then.
 
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bilgami said:
do you have any on cam models by any chance?
Click to expand...

I have not mounted my LED design on a camera cuz i usually have a lighting crew on my shoots. The dimension of the LED light is : L260mm x W90mm x H80mm
Weight: 700 grams

you can mount the light with a shoe mount to 1/4-20 thread adapter. It will be kinda bulky on a consumer DV cam but its ok for prosumer DV & prof cams. I intended my design to have a bigger light source cuz u can get a better lighting result from it than a small source.

MattinSTL- Thanks for your advice regarding gathering interest for the forum & trusting the responses. I appreciate it.

I'm in the process of building a website for my design & it will have a paypal payment when I'm totally confident of the product & the responses. My main job is running a production house, directing, producing & DOP work & making sure everyone in my company are happy working. But like many of u, DIY & invention , together with video production is my passion. I don't wanna sell something I'm not confident about & worry about repairs, hate mails, returns & stuff. There are so many things to worry about going into a shoot & confidence in your equipment is crucial for a successful production.

All these were taken into consideration when I design my LED light. I wanted the simpliest design for greatest reliablity. The LED strips, dimmer box & holder as independent units held together by screws. The connections are straightforward so troubleshooting is easy. Thats why i choose to have the LED in strips rather than a whole unit. Its very unlikely that 6 strip will fail at the same time. Anyway, when 1 LED blows it only affects the 1 bulb next to it. The rest of the strip still works, thats the cool thing about the circuitry. The dimmer is a 15 amp so I can add another 10 strips it will still work fine. The only thing I'm not sure about right now is the color temp. I have bought some that is very close to daylight & the next week the same shop is selling LEDs are closer to 8000 deg. I need to find a supplier who consistant
 
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Here are links to 2 clips from the travelogue i shot in Koh Samui, Thailand. The LED light I use for this shoot was an earlier design which uses flood bulbs rather than spot. Thus, it has less lumens than the present design.That design has a plastic holder & the barn door that doesn't work as well. The output is the same, 12 V, 6 LED strips.

This clip was shot with the Sony Z1

http://www.udconcepts.com/movies/Greenmango.mpg

This clip was shot on the cinealta F900

http://www.udconcepts.com/movies/fullmoon.mpg
 

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Was the LED light mounted on camera with an arm, or did you have someone holding it on a boom pole?
Needless to say the cinealta´s picture looks better, but the light level seems to be higher on this shot to (and the color temp cooler...)
Was the lamp CTOed on the Z1 shots?
Anyhow, nice shots!
 
Spartacus said:
Was the LED light mounted on camera with an arm, or did you have someone holding it on a boom pole?
Needless to say the cinealta´s picture looks better, but the light level seems to be higher on this shot to (and the color temp cooler...)
Was the lamp CTOed on the Z1 shots?
Anyhow, nice shots!
Click to expand...

I had a lighting assistant holding the LED light with a short boom arm. The cinealta definitely has better low light capabilty than the Z1.

I don't remember if I had a CTO for the Z1 shots.

thanks, it was a fun shoot
 
CK Chan, I'm in Macau, China. Any possibility on shipping those lights to here?

Also, what batteries are you using for exterior shots? Can you sell a package that includes batteries and charger?

I'm very interested on your light!
 
SPZ said:
CK Chan, I'm in Macau, China. Any possibility on shipping those lights to here?

Also, what batteries are you using for exterior shots? Can you sell a package that includes batteries and charger?

I'm very interested on your light!
Click to expand...

Thanks for your interest.

I'm currently waiting for my light meter to come so i can testing the LEDs from different light suppliers to make sure that the LEDs are the right color temp for filming.

As for batteries, I was using a 12 V lead acid for those video clips. I'm currently testing out a 2500Mah Nickel Cadium battery pack & they can be mounted behind the LEDs . Its about palm-size & should last a few hours, I'll probably try them tmw.

I'm building a website with more info about my LED light. If there is enough interest from forum, then i can go to the fabrication shop for production. I don't wanna be stuck with 30 pieces of metal.:crybaby:

I'll keep u posted
 
ck, have you considered using some of the high intensity LED arrays instead of the ones you're using? I'm talking about those 1W to 3W Luxon LED arrays. I've been sourcing these to build one myself and I'm telling you those things are super-bright. They're so bright you can't look directly at it without considerable discomfort.

I've been looking at some 5600k ones - 3 or 4 per strip, runs approximately 3.5V to 3.8V or so per LED so the combos will run either on 7V (not exact) or around 11-12V. This means they can run off fast charge Lithium-Polymers (2 or 3 cells) or regular 12V lead-acid batteries. Some of these come with a metal substrate that acts as a heatsink and it's actually quite trivial to mount on a bigger back plate, which was what I was intending to do. The current cost is about S$20-$30 per strip. You'll probably want around 3-strips for a very bright LED light, or 4-strips if you want something super-bright.

I believe the stocks should already be in Singapore around this week or so. They also have 3200k varieties. I don't know how bright the current LED strips you're using are, but I've seen these ones I'm testing and it's basically blinding (even just 1 of them). Don't know about the life though but it should be good if you have a decent heatsink. The 3W Luxeon arrays are probably not suitable because they get pretty hot. The 1W arrays of 3 or 4 are probably the best. It looks like 3 x 1W LEDs appear brighter than a single 3W LED anyway.

A full array of say 4-strips of 3 LED's will draw just about 12-15W of power and at 12V, this works out to just a bit over 1A. In other words, you won't need any fancy power controller for this. Just about any linear or switching controller will handle this amount of power although my preference would be fore switching controllers such as those made my Linear Technologies. The reason is because of their greater efficiency and low heat dissipation. The color temperature does not seem to change as long as the voltage does not get too low.

One other thing about using these 3-LED arrays is that the form factor is smaller. The strips themselves are shorter and so you can actually build the light smaller if you like. I don't know how the strip separation will affect the final light diffusion. I suppose that a more concentrated source will diffuse slightly less than a spread out array. The dimensions you give seems to suggest longer LED strips. These will be much shorter but if you really want the diffusion, you can always space them out more. The thing is that with the shorter arrays, you have the option of making smaller and lighter units that will mount better on the camera.

Another way to vary the brightness is simply to switch off part of the LED-array. Not as sophisticated but far simpler, more fool-proof, and most importantly, cheaper. Just let me know if you want more information.

Daniel Wee
 
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Daniel,
the thing I like about ck`s design is the big lighting surface you get with this 30 LED strips. So it should be Kinoflo like diffusion...
The Luxeons are still very expensive atm, and would fit better for a DIY frezzi/gunstyle oncamera Light, I guess.
What I really would be interested in is battery solutions, so far I was only thinking of automotive gel batteries, do you have any smaller high power suggestions (preferable with a link)?
 
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