DIY: Low budget Feature in need of some help.

R

robo3687

Well-known member
Hi, names Paul Robinson and I'm part of a group from Australia that's going to be making a WW2 feature in the early parts of next year. Our budget is very low......we are doing mostly everything through the calling in of favours and great persuasion skills (including possibly securing a Sherman Tank :grin: ).

On this project I'm writing, directing and being the camera operator / DP . Now our equipment for this is limited and low-grade we have:

A Canon mv600i (older PAL version of the zr100) and I might be getting an mv800i (which is a zr100)
a tripod

and thats about it....i haven't actually seen the equipment which is an issue but I have worked with the same sort of camera before. Since we are putting a lot of time and an amount of money into this I want it to look as professional as I can manage with the mv600i.

I plan on making:

- a 35mm adapter
- a 'steadicam'
- a dolly
- a crane (maybe.....i'm working out some plans...)

And I understand that this is primarily a DVX forum...but I like the input here so I thought I'd ask you guys.
 
What I'm after is just any tips and experiences on making the lowest cost versions of these pieces of equipment.....

for instance I'm considering just doing a static 35mm adapter because there's a bit less work and the grain and such would add to the ww2 look we're going for...
 
Hey,
first of all good luck...!
You should be able to find all of these things here in the DIY section with a bit of search and you should also look here:
http://www.homebuiltstabilizers.com/
But one thing: since your going to spent a lot of time and money on this, for your own sake, choose a different camera!
DVX,XL1S or 2,PD150/170 and all other more professional DV cameras will help you get and overall better looking product.
If you get lighting, costumes, SFX, props, audio, actors a.s.o. right, why mess it up with a toy camera?
The mv800 is around 260 Euros, having a 800.000 pixel single chip, may I ask if you any filming experience so far?
Don´t get me wrong, I´m not trying to bully you, and a lot can be done with little, but considering you are planing a FEATURE, you really should IMHO consider a different camera, even if you than won´t be able to get the other gadgets(Steady,Crane...) anymore...
All the best,

Chris
 
as much as i would love to have a dvx or another sort of camera theres just no feasible way of doing that for us right now...unless I win lotto....and there is nowhere we can hire them (live in the country). The mv600i is the camera we have...and its what we're stuck with.....lol...unless i can get the mv800 which has just had 150 bucks wiped off its price here in Oz.....

what it boils down to is we are a group (main group about 3-4 ppl....cast/crew getting up towards 60 ppl) who have just finished school, and i personally want to make a living out of this....and since our equipment is limited...i'm just going to make the most of it.....

oh yeh..and as for experience..lol..forgot that.........i've made 4 shorts (in which i wore nearly every production hat) and written a 1 hour drama script as well as a 15 minute comedy script. I've had a lot of experience in using the mv600i (it's what our school had) and have been able to get some fairly nice looking pictures out of it....of course nothing like dvx.....but acceptable to me...lol

and thanks for that link....i hadn't found that site before and it looks like it might help out...
 
I'm with Spartacas on this. Don't put money into a movie that you're going to shoot on an below average home video camera. These things are made for shooting home videos, not features. You're better off buying a good camera and shooting a cheaper movie.
 
You should be able to get a used 3 chip camera for around 2000 USD, if you can convince 10 people to join its 200 bucks each, sell the camera afterwards for 1500, pay the guys back - everyone spent 50 bucks for making a feature...
Spent a little more and get a new cam and sell it after the film is done...
Start filming weddings or whatever, 5 Weddings 400 bucks each...
NOW COME ON !!!
 
i have been looking around and the cheapest 3CCD cameras i can get are the Panasonic gs150, gs250 and gs400

gs150 - AU$ 900
gs250 - AU$ 1115
gs400 - AU$ 1400

I'll talk it over with those involved to see if we can add something to the actor/crew fee....cos its already at about AU$ 40 to cover costumes and props

EDIT: oh and the camera's are brand new, on ebay and ship from Hong Kong for about 60 bucks....the hong kong thing worries me but aparently it gets here in about 4 days and usually avoids import fees....
 
ok so I've talked it over with the co-director and he seems to be for getting a gs150

I've made a huge push for the camera on our forum and we are going to try and get as many people to contribute as we can...we already have 25 people on the film so far but we're hoping to get about 60 people contributing to the camera, making it about 15 bucks a pop.

The price I've got them for is AU$939 with $31 postage

----

It's also frustrating being the only real techno-savvy one trying to explain why 3CCD's are better than one...and why camera A is better than camera B....lol
 
Perhaps you don't realize what you're getting yourself into, friend.
What about sound? What about lights? What about food? What about music royalties?

What you need is business plan. Quit worrying about a camera!
The irony here is a DVX100 would likely be the cheapest line item in your budget!

You need at least $50K and that's if you rent all your equipment and find a free DP.
Otherwise, you just may end up with what you put into it: a home movie.

Good luck with that!
 
thisiswells said:
Perhaps you don't realize what you're getting yourself into, friend.
What about sound? What about lights? What about food? What about music royalties?

What you need is business plan. Quit worrying about a camera!
The irony here is a DVX100 would likely be the cheapest line item in your budget!

You need at least $50K and that's if you rent all your equipment and find a free DP.
Otherwise, you just may end up with what you put into it: a home movie.

Good luck with that!
Click to expand...


gee thanks for the vote of confidence.....

it's not like I'm trying to make a hollywood movie here.......cos I'm not....I'm not trying to make something that may make me money......I'm not planing on taking this to festivals....and I'm not planning on hiring any professional crew members....

I am doing this for the simple fact that it is what I love to do.....i am doing this for myself....I am 18 and live in country australia...I do not have $50,000....i don't even have $2,000....what i have is what i have and thats what I am going to use to do the best damn job i can....

whatever money i don't have i am raising through contributions and other methods...and as for a camera...i was never worried about the camera.....i was fine with the equipment i had...

i apologise for the rant but yes i do know what I am getting myself into, i do have a plan, the script is being written, everything is fine....the point of this thread was me asking for methods of making camera equipment on a shoestring....and i haven't really gotten anything yet....

and i understand your just trying to help me not make a mess of things...really i do...and i appreciate that....just please understand i have this under control...

EDIT:also alot of this I may have accidentally brought upon myself when I used the word 'feature' in my initial post....

by no means do i mean a full 2 hour movie....that would kill me....the runtime we're heading for is around 30 mins....but i can see it maybe pushing 45mins-1hr....but thats manageable...i've done that before.....
 
robo3687 said:
gee thanks for the vote of confidence.....
Click to expand...
Anytime! In filmmaking, it's important to have thick skin. If a guy can't handle a little ribbing on a forum, then he has no business directing a film. I'd say you passed!
robo3687 said:
I am doing this for the simple fact that it is what I love to do.....i am doing this for myself....I am 18 and live in country australia...
Click to expand...
Yes, yes, and we're all very jealous of you! First, you live in Australia. Second, you live in the country. I cannot even fathom how beautiful it must be where you live.
robo3687 said:
whatever money i don't have i am raising through contributions and other methods...
Click to expand...
Encourage one of your mates to help you produce it (producer credits are given to people who raise money). It's pretty easy to raise small amounts of money. There are a lot of ideas. Be creative. Ask the local businesses to support the film and offer them a screen credit in return!
robo3687 said:
Since we are putting a lot of time and an amount of money into this I want it to look as professional
Click to expand...
Let me ask you this: Would you build a house out of popsicle sticks?



Either way you go with your camera situation, we all know you're gonna have a lot of fun doing this, so might as well make it worth while, you know?
 
robo3687 said:
I am doing this for the simple fact that it is what I love to do.....i am doing this for myself....I am 18 and live in country australia...what i have is what i have and thats what I am going to use to do the best damn job i can....
Click to expand...
And you will have the time of your life while doing it. Go for it!!!!!!!!! By all means!!!!

In terms of technical stuff: for sound; check the specs of that camcorder, one of them comes with a remote mic. Is not stereo, but you'll be able to get closer to the actors and get a cleaner sound as well as start/stop the camera!

For 35mm adapter; get an older Nikon camera with lens, get one of these screens:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-F4-Focusi...yZ107925QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
open the back of the camera and mount the screen in the film frame.
Get an Al plate, drill and tap two 1/4" holes (one for Nikon one for camcorder and use raisers to match the heights) and some black plastic to prevent light spills.
For dolly, crane, steadicam.... you'll find something (lots on the net).

Ahhhh... the freedom and enthusiasm some professionals trade for $hundreds/day while dragging their feet through 14h/day on a movie which’s action, story and sometimes characters remain a mystery till its release....

Go for it!!! Have fun and don't forget the still photographer. Post some pics.
 
thisiswells said:
Anytime! In filmmaking, it's important to have thick skin. If a guy can't handle a little ribbing on a forum, then he has no business directing a film. I'd say you passed!
Click to expand...

lol...goodo....i may have had a bit of a blow up...but at least i passed the test...lol

thisiswells said:
Yes, yes, and we're all very jealous of you! First, you live in Australia. Second, you live in the country. I cannot even fathom how beautiful it must be where you live.
Click to expand...

Yeh, living where i do is very handy for doing things like war movies, lots of open free locations... :)

thisiswells said:
Encourage one of your mates to help you produce it (producer credits are given to people who raise money). It's pretty easy to raise small amounts of money. There are a lot of ideas. Be creative. Ask the local businesses to support the film and offer them a screen credit in return!
Click to expand...

yeah we've got about 3 or 4 people working on getting contributions together and we're considering putting ad's in the paper for anyone interested in supporting us.

thisiswells said:
Let me ask you this: Would you build a house out of popsicle sticks?
Click to expand...

most probably :evil: but it'd be the best damn popsicle stick house you've ever seen.....lol...but jokes aside...i do know what u mean

thisiswells said:
Either way you go with your camera situation, we all know you're gonna have a lot of fun doing this, so might as well make it worth while, you know?
Click to expand...

Well hopefully we'll be getting the GS150 if we can get enough people together for it.

Oh and Dan thanks for the encouragement and ideas....I shall look into it..
 
robo3687 -

Stick 2 it brother! I'm 37 now and i've made 3 full length films, selling 2 of 'em so far. Considering that they say the odds are only 1 in 10 independant films that are started finish, and that only 1 out of those ten sell, I think we've done all right!

You know how we did it? Don't spend cash where you don't need 2. The first film cost 'bout $38 K (shot on 16mm), the 2d about $5 k (XL1), and the last one around $1 k (XL1). Now we haven't gotten rich, but we're starting production on the 4 + 5 th films right now and it still exciting to be in the biz, even if its on the edges...

I do agree w/ many who've suggested a better camera - this is the one place to spend $ if you have 2. I love our xl1 (newly refurbished and for sale - 1 grand cheap!), but for us, it's time to upgrade to the next gen of cameras.

The one thing I would say is, don't plan on not selling it - films are so expensive to make, and take so much time and energy to make, why not aim to sell it - even if 'selling' it means you see no real $, but it gets out to the public.

As to the stuff you want to build, i'd say the home-made dolly is what would give you the most bang for the buck. You could use it for virtually every shot or scene and they are pretty cheap to make and easy to build.

Cranes? How many shots will need a crane shot? 1 or 2? 10? Cranes can be cheap to make, but they are harder to build then they look and, in my own opinion, are really only practicle for a limited amount of shots (see SAVING PRIVATE RYAN - not 2 many crane shots - the "yes is is, quite a view" shot after the taking of the beach is probably the most notible.

Stedicam? The best DYI stedicams are ones that use the balancing pole idea of the trapezee artist, except that they do it up/down vs horizontal. The simplest (and i think most effective) of these plans is simply a five foot length of thin pipe with a small board and a screw at the end. These can work fairly well if you're strong enough to balance the pipe + the cam. Cheap + decently effective if not over used. Sam Rami used a 2 by 4 w/the camera in the middle supported by a rope hung around the neck to achieve some the 'stedi' shots in EVIL DEAD - it's a little harder to use and is not practicle indoors, but outdoors it's not too bad.

35mm adapter? Never built one, as they look pretty hard to make. I do know that selective depth of field can be a useful tool in the director'd bag o tricks, but I'd wait until you know exactly what kind of camera you are going to be using. The cool thing about building a dolly/crane, is that they could be used for whatever camera you use, even for projects further on down the line, whereas the adapter might not work for every camera, or be practical....

Bottom line - a DYI dolly, $50 in scoop lights from the hardware store, $20 in fake blood, & $20 for blanks will take you a long way if everything else is donated.. Goodluck, and feel free to email me if you want.... (jdvincent666@yahoo.com).
John
 
thanks jdv.

Onto something thats a bit serious...lol...yesterday I figured it couldn't hurt to put some ads in free classifieds on the net seeing if anyone would like to put some money into this movie.

Granted I never thought that it would work but I checked my email this morning and I had an offer from MLC Capital Inc. in London wanting to take a close look at the details of my project as they are interested in providing funding for me.

i was like :cheesy: :grin: :beer:

but there are a few things I need a bit of help with...they would like a business plan from me to review but I'm not sure on what I should include in it? (don't worry...i realise this is the DIY bit...i'll take it to the business section too)

I said in the ad that I was preparing for my first major movie and that I was short on funds to cover equipment and such.

Oh and this is the website of MLC Capital Inc.

http://www.mlccapitaloffshore.com/Index.html

EDIT: ok so after a little bit of correspondance with MLC it turns out i can't accept the funding because I am not an Incorporated business
 
If anyone reading this considers financing through an offshore investment firm I would encourage them to contact a local DVXuser in that area to visit the "brick and morter" of the business to help determine its legitimacy. There are a number of dishonest business people out there ready to rob you blind by assessing "fees" for releasing capital that never existed. I am not speaking of any business in particular, just passing along a general word of caution...
 
thisiswells said:
If anyone reading this considers financing through an offshore investment firm I would encourage them to contact a local DVXuser in that area to visit the "brick and morter" of the business to help determine its legitimacy. There are a number of dishonest business people out there ready to rob you blind by assessing "fees" for releasing capital that never existed. I am not speaking of any business in particular, just passing along a general word of caution...
Click to expand...


yeh that sounds like a good idea....the only people i'm really searching for for contributions are just regular people...i'm not after government grants (although it would be nice to get one of those) or investment firms or anything...lol

just anyone who wouldn't mind giving away a few dollars (obviousy not large amounts)

jdv said:
The one thing I would say is, don't plan on not selling it - films are so expensive to make, and take so much time and energy to make, why not aim to sell it - even if 'selling' it means you see no real $, but it gets out to the public.
Click to expand...

I woldn't say i have planned to not sell it....I probably will end up selling it somehow....but its just not the main reason I'm doing it :)
 
Hi Robo,
I also live in OZ and have just released my first DVD (Fishing related) and I was able to produce a 1000 DVD's in jackets, slicks printed and payed for royalties for a well known local band for less than $4000. I also did it on a digital stills camera. I have since bought a DVX100 but will be finishing my next film on the old camera just because I have most of the footage I need. I have sold enough of the DVD's to cover the cost of production in the first 6 weeks. Hope this gives you a little hope, as I have no formal training, it sounds like you are one up, on where I started.
All the best, hope to see the final product somewhere,
 
Hey Robo....

Just wanted to tell you I feel your pain. I'm also in the whole "need money to make a movie" kind-of feel. This forum is pretty good about helping you out with ideas and suggestions. There seem to be alot of focus on cameras but hey it's all in the look when you are done. Check out some of the other posts on how to make a dolly and crane. If you can you should check out "Undead" the zombie flick from your fellow Aussie's. They can prove that you can get a HELL of a lot done down under for next to nothing. Plus there is a little info on how to make some things from the local hardware store. I find just asking people in hardware stores is the best way to start out. They like to talk about how to make things. Plus if you are really desperate to make a dolly...level the ground, put down some wooden flooring material and get a shopping cart. It's low-budget but by goodness it's gotten film makers here in the states through many a film. I think you might want to reconsider the whole "no festival play" angle though. A sherman tank? Please brother...I'm in pre-production on a feature length film and I would KILL for a cameo by a tank....and my script doesn't even call for one. I'd put it in anyway. Just remember that there are people like you out there. This is the best thing for you to do. Just get the hell out there and make a damn movie. If you stop long enought to realize what you are getting yourself into you will quickly find a job at a bank and forget making movies. They are HARD to film and it's a labor of love and I applaud you. I need that pick-me-up sometimes so I thought I owed it to the art of filmmaking to send it your way. Keep your head up, and good luck.

Yours...
James "The Truth"
www.veritasfilms.net
 
robo3687 said:
as much as i would love to have a dvx or another sort of camera theres just no feasible way of doing that for us right now...unless I win lotto....and there is nowhere we can hire them (live in the country). The mv600i is the camera we have...and its what we're stuck with.....lol...unless i can get the mv800 which has just had 150 bucks wiped off its price here in Oz.....
Click to expand...

If you can secure a Sherman Tank, you can probably secure a free or cheap camera for the duration of the shoot. If you have a solid script and are putting this together professionally, you may be able to convince a DP who has their own camera to come on for free.

Two basic rules of indie, no budget filmmaking I've learned over the years covers sound and food.

1. Next to script, the next most important thing is sound. Crap photography, crap acting, and crap production values won't ruin your movie and insult an audience more than bad sound. Unfortunately, its rare you can get sound equipment or sound guys for free. I'd suggest talking to lots of sound guys, and maybe convincing one to teach you or your crew some basics for a day or two.

2. Feed your crew. Don't be cheap. Your mom may be a great cook here and there, but raise some money or find a ton of donations to ensure your crew is never working hungry or out of their own pocket. Good food is the cheapest way to get an overworked, volunteer crew to work even longer. And the promise of a breakfast is a good way to make sure they'll show up on time the next day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top