DIY Fluorescent Lighting

miracom said:
Well, don't be shy! Show us. That's why I started this thread. I want to see what everyone is doing...
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I showed everybody a long time ago... I've been doing DIY flo lights since '03... "here's a peek at what I've been working on"... I don't want to revive that thread because as I was saying... I'm taking a break from lights AT THE MOMENT as the dust settles on all this stuff.

I want to evaluate what people feel is most important before I commit to another batch of lights... my projects were someplace between DIY and affordable lights... I wasn't making hardly anything on them, but I wasn't trying to either. Maybe it was the easy way out, but I figured as long as nobody could make anything anywhere near as nice for a lot more then I was charging... then everybody would be happy.

Now with your thread and some of the other flo DIY threads I want to wait and see what's REALLY important to people... I could have made lights of equal output, but much cheaper construction... and it appears that might be the way to go. I was spending over $50 on the aluminum shells alone... with that and some other details it was getting hard to sell single tube fixtures for even $199... sooo time for a break. If people want $99 fixtures instead of $199 fixtures then it means I have to see if that's possible for me to do.

Have you ever considered what you might charge for each of your light designs if you were selling them instead of showing people how to mod or make their own?

I started off wanting to make lights for myself... and then I started running pricing for 15+ lights per "batch"... and that's how I started selling other people the same lights I wanted for myself. With the DIY spirit being pretty high lately (or LOOKING as if it is) I put up my sockets, supports, and reflector material for sale and so far very few takers... so I'm thinking that all the requests I kept getting from people to divulge a total blueprint was mostly talk anyway... I think most people that read threads like this find it interesting, but probably won't commit to actually making these things for themselves... and that's what I originally thought when I started selling others the lights that I made for myself.

I'm waiting to see if a lot of people do start doing the DIY thing and if rock bottom flo lighting is going to get popular... or if I should start making stuff to sell again. I'm already looking at ways to sell effective flo lighting in this new sub-$100 range anyway, but those lights won't be anything like my other lights... and this is why I'm wondering if you'd care to entertain me and put a price on each of the lights that you have made (or perhaps just the small 30w flo)... if you were to start going to the trouble to make these for people how much would you want for each light?
 
MattinSTL said:
Have you ever considered what you might charge for each of your light designs if you were selling them instead of showing people how to mod or make their own?

...and this is why I'm wondering if you'd care to entertain me and put a price on each of the lights that you have made (or perhaps just the small 30w flo)... if you were to start going to the trouble to make these for people how much would you want for each light?
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I'd say that it might be difficult with the sheet metal boxes until they can be kits and more mass produced to produce them at a price that people would be willing to pay--but I am working on it.

Right now, if I were to sell the 126w softlite (with all attachments) it would cost about $260 for just the sheet metal parts (since I'm ordering small quantities--you've got the base, reflector, yoke, barndoor attachment, hood attachment and yoke mounting hardware--a lot of stuff!). Probably add another $70 for a powder coating option--or people could just paint it like I did the original ones. Electronic parts, sockets, wire, bulbs, etc. would add another--say $100. Another $140 on top of that if you want dimmer. Don't know if people are willing to pay that or not. I guess we'll find out. It's a pretty unique design in what's available right now in fluorescent.

My 200w CFL fixture and yoke that I'm working on now will probably cost $140 with all the parts in the sheet metal version (w/o bulb). If I can get the cast aluminum version one that I want, that should go down significantly to under $100.

As I just posted in this thread, I'll have a larger version of the halogen box for sale soon -- should be under $100 when you get the fixture and bulb. Barndoors may add a bit more--not sure yet. Stand will probably be targetted at $35. Just waiting to evaluate all the samples I have coming in.

I have the "low key" 30w light for sale right now on my site at $189. That's the assembled version. The parts only version would be way, way cheaper than that--for sure sub $100. I actually have already sold one of those assembled ones to a D.P. in Hollywood. Loves it and wants to use it as an on-camera light (35mm camera) even though it is a bit larger than what you would normally see for this use.

The 6 x 55w fixture which I will probably only make to order unless it becomes very popular will be selling for around $370 with all the parts. As has been noted in another thread--a dimmer option would be very expensive for this one. But would sell it assembled for $499 or so probably.

Right now, I need a mass-produced, low cost cast aluminum box for the 110w (2 x 55w) fixture. I think that's what people are going to be more wanting than the 6 x 55w fixture. If you want inexpensive--cast aluminum is the way to go!
 
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Barndoors on worklights

Barndoors on worklights

On your worklight version, how were the barndoor mounted on the frame of the light?
 
Miracom,

I think it is very admirable that you are willing to share so much of the information you have learned through hard earned (and probably none-so-cheap) experience.

I see that you are making a go of it on your website, with finished units, but I appreciate the energy you have put in here to foster that DIY spirit.

Much like Matt, you are not protective in this forum of the lessons you have learned, but share and hope that others will share their experience too.

Thanks, to both of you guys..


Cheers,
J
 
miracom said:
there really isn't much in the way of suitable mounting fixtures for these bulbs right now...
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Anything with a mogul base will work, right? What about a Photoflex Starlite? I just bought one today for a song. They are great tungsten hot lights -- and it sounds like they would be a good match for an inexpensive (~$50) daylight flo globe, too.

Just a thought.
 
miracom said:
Right now, I need a mass-produced, low cost cast aluminum box for the 110w (2 x 55w) fixture.
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I have some Kino Flo Diva Lite's and they are little more than overpriced aquarium lights with dimmers. 55W daylight biax tubes have been used in aquarium lights for years. Check eBay for super cheap daylight balanced aquarium lights. I've seen them for under ~$20 before. Jebo is one brand name that is pretty cheap. Another cool thing is the 55W "Actinic" globes which are the same as Kino's "Super Blue" Visual Effects lamps for Blue Green/FX work. They are also very cheap on eBay.
 
thisiswells said:
Anything with a mogul base will work, right? What about a Photoflex Starlite? I just bought one today for a song. They are great tungsten hot lights -- and it sounds like they would be a good match for an inexpensive (~$50) daylight flo globe, too.

Just a thought.
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Well mogul base if you want to use the larger bulbs like the 85w to 200w ones. Otherwise, medium or edison (e26 or e27 also) base for most of the spiral lamps. Remember mogul (also known as E39 or E40) is the larger version of the smaller "medium" edison base. As long as the bulb is "self-ballasted" there should be no problem. As will be seen soon, I am experimenting with some non-ballasted CFL 200w lights. Not sure what I think about it yet, but it does lower bulb replacement cost as you are only replacing the bulb not also the ballast.
 
thisiswells said:
I have some Kino Flo Diva Lite's and they are little more than overpriced aquarium lights with dimmers. 55W daylight biax tubes have been used in aquarium lights for years. Check eBay for super cheap daylight balanced aquarium lights. I've seen them for under ~$20 before. Jebo is one brand name that is pretty cheap. Another cool thing is the 55W "Actinic" globes which are the same as Kino's "Super Blue" Visual Effects lamps for Blue Green/FX work. They are also very cheap on eBay.
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Interesting, so the color temperature of the Kino Visual Effects bulbs is in the 10,000K range-because that is what actinic usually is. Well I've said for quite some time now that I thought daylight was better for blue/green screen work. The screen would have to be rendered in all its glory quite a bit better in daylight color temps (or higher!). Actually, the best of all worlds might even be to light the backdrop with daylight and the subject with 3200K. What does anyone else think on that? You get perfectly rendered green behind and a "warmly" lit human in front.
 
Cine Services in STL sold me some green and blue flo tubes that were supposed to be Kino's green and blue "visual effects" tubes and they are so green (or blue) that you can hardly look at them... they make the entire room that color unless you control the spill totally... unless you have adequate room between the person and the green screen it's hard to control the bounce-back... but if you do have distance and can flag off the flo totally... then these green or blue lights will turn your green/blue screen totally, flawlessly green/blue. The light they put out is like fog... it permeates every crease or blemish of the green/blue screen... but like I said, it's borderline TOO effective... so you need distance.

I don't know the color temp of the blue lights I got, but they are ultra-blue, just as the green are ultra-green... it doesn't remind me of a fish tank at all... they are so solidly colored that they make your eyes vibrate when you look at them... :)

Seriously it gives you a headache.
 
MattinSTL said:
Cine Services in STL sold me some green and blue flo tubes that were supposed to be Kino's green and blue "visual effects" tubes and they are so green (or blue) that you can hardly look at them... they make the entire room that color unless you control the spill totally... unless you have adequate room between the person and the green screen it's hard to control the bounce-back... but if you do have distance and can flag off the flo totally... then these green or blue lights will turn your green/blue screen totally, flawlessly green/blue. The light they put out is like fog... it permeates every crease or blemish of the green/blue screen... but like I said, it's borderline TOO effective... so you need distance.

I don't know the color temp of the blue lights I got, but they are ultra-blue, just as the green are ultra-green... it doesn't remind me of a fish tank at all... they are so solidly colored that they make your eyes vibrate when you look at them... :)

Seriously it gives you a headache.
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Oh, I misunderstood. Thought these lamps were some kind of special daylight lamp for rendering colors better. It seems you really can make a super rendered blue or green screen with those blue or green tubes. Anyone remember that movie "Dragonslayer" from around 1981. They did really great compositing work in that. Used a backlit screen. Backlit with blue DC operated fluorescent tubes. Probably cost an arm and a leg to find and pay for those back then and it was a huge screen too with tons of tubes behind it.

Of course, as you observed, the person in front of the screen had to be a ways from it to keep from having blue spill problems on them. The DC operation was the best way they had back then to aleviate the problem of flicker. Today, it's no longer an issue with most good electronic ballasts--as you are well aware....
 
The last light looks like a chain gun or something...Really mean. I can't even being to fathom how much effort it must have taken to put all these together. Great job
 
Carlos_E._Martinez said:
This site has some interesting setups for CFLs:

http://homeharvest.com/hydrofarmcompactfluorescents.htm

Prices are not exactly cheap, but...

Kelvin temp is rather high, but a light orange or yelow gel/celophane would warm it.

How linear is the light output is a question mark, though.
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I would really be curious how suitable 6400K would be for shooting. Never tried it. They also have a 2700K. That seems like too extreme also. Way too warm probably. I have some 2900K ones I have used before and don't really like them. If I am using "warm" I like 3200 or even 3500 is pretty nice. Just need barndoors and it might be okay. Prices are perhaps a bit much.
 
The other thing to watch is the spikes in the spectrum of the bulbs themselves. Both seem to have a big spke in green and yellow. I'm curios what the CRI of the bulbs are.

Ross
 
Cool video on your website! Who did the music? Nice! I own the Birds Nest Studio in Covington Georgia - http://www.thebirdsneststudio.com - and we're starting to get more serious with our music videos. This forum has been an amazing resource and I have learned much from it in just the couple weeks since I discovered it. Your Light Ideas are great. I will be "borrowing" from you!

Thanks, :dankk2:

Bird
 
Bird said:
Cool video on your website! Who did the music? Nice! I own the Birds Nest Studio in Covington Georgia - http://www.thebirdsneststudio.com - and we're starting to get more serious with our music videos. This forum has been an amazing resource and I have learned much from it in just the couple weeks since I discovered it. Your Light Ideas are great. I will be "borrowing" from you!

Thanks, :dankk2:

Bird
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Looks like a nice little studio. My studio started out as a sound studio many years ago and morphed in to a video studio. I have tons and tons of royalty free music on my 89 minute video. Spent a fortune on that alone. Can't even begin to say how many songs are there. Most came from places like musicbakery.com, flying hands music, elite video, opuzz, sounddogs and ultimate tracks. Since I have a sound background, i really understand the necessity of good sound on video and spend quite a bit of time on mixing the final soundtrack down.

My microphone, from my recording days, is a Neumann U87 that was modified by Cameron labs in Tennessee to have a vacuum tube in it. Really changes the character of the mic (and makes it quite a bit more expensive too!). I have a few other mics too of various types. The Neumann of course is not a location mic and is a very unconventional mic to use in video also. Before that I had a U67 but sold it when I quit doing music and sound recording. Wasn't suitable for anything but music because of it's mediocre noise floor. Kept the U87 though because it was cleaner sounding for voiceovers, etc.
 
Looks like we might be morphing that way too (video). I love the medium, but I am a gospel music performer as well, and that is truly my calling so I can never give that up, but we are heading into the video world in order to do TV. I'm doing a cable show right now locally and we hope to expand that as our product improves. I'm learning a lot by doing tho. I liked your work and ideas!

God Bless,

Bird
 
Im building a "Warm White ( 3500K) Flourescant ringlite.

Will update with Pics and scematics.
 
TeamJoeDawn said:
*bump* This is a great thread... I wish I had more to contribute. I will make one of these!!!!
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Wow, we've come a long way since July. Seems so long ago.

What kind of work are you doing? If you're doing closein work, why not start by making something simple like the fluorescent halogen conversion. I covered the barn door part in my "Cool Lights Video Magazine" (by any other name, a VLOG) recently.

http://www.coollights.biz/wordpress/archives/category/cool-lights-video-magazine

Here's the barndoor segment specifically:

http://www.coollights.biz/wordpress/archives/21#more-21
 

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