Distributing your film on Amazon.com
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filmman
Veteran
Yes, I have. My movie Butterflies in the Wind is on http://www.CreateSpace.com and http://www.amazon.com
You send your DVD and artwork to CreateSpace.com and they take care of the rest -- making DVDs and boxes with artwork and ship it to customers.
They send you a check or deposit the money into your account. It's not a lot of money, but it's better than nothing. The problem, as is with all marketing on the Internet, you have to promote your movies yourself. I'm thinking of doing more marketing.
But this type of distribution might not be the best for you, if you have investors or if your movie cost too much money and you need to recover the budget fast. In that case you need to find an agent or a distributor, so you can get a big chunk of money.
You send your DVD and artwork to CreateSpace.com and they take care of the rest -- making DVDs and boxes with artwork and ship it to customers.
They send you a check or deposit the money into your account. It's not a lot of money, but it's better than nothing. The problem, as is with all marketing on the Internet, you have to promote your movies yourself. I'm thinking of doing more marketing.
But this type of distribution might not be the best for you, if you have investors or if your movie cost too much money and you need to recover the budget fast. In that case you need to find an agent or a distributor, so you can get a big chunk of money.
kecorcoran
Well-known member
Yes, I have a couple of shorts I sell through Amazon/CreateSpace:
The Cracked Man on Amazon
Cube Zombies on Amaon
it's very convenient, and it gives people a certain sense of trust when buying your movie online.
But Amazon keeps quite a percentage. I sell my shorts $10 each. Amazon takes a $4.95 flat fee plus 45% of whatever's left. So for each Amazon sale, I get $0.55.
At this rate, I'll make back my production costs in a mere 400 years!
The Cracked Man on Amazon
Cube Zombies on Amaon
it's very convenient, and it gives people a certain sense of trust when buying your movie online.
But Amazon keeps quite a percentage. I sell my shorts $10 each. Amazon takes a $4.95 flat fee plus 45% of whatever's left. So for each Amazon sale, I get $0.55.
At this rate, I'll make back my production costs in a mere 400 years!
mastermind
Well-known member
yeah thats pretty expensive in terms of their cut. there was another fullfilment company on here. can't remember the name but i think it was even somehow associated with Dvxuser.com anyone remember the name? i think it started with a K or C or something.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
That's my main problem with Amazon, and why I think as far as being a partner with them they don't treat you fairly at all. They make a point of saying in their rules, whether it's a book or a movie or whatever you are selling, that you get 45%, they get 55%. This really rubs me the wrong way. I'm the content creator. There is no product without me, plain and simple. I can sell my product without them, but they can't sell my product without me. Yet they intentionally give you just a bit less than 50% to remind you they are Amazon.com, you are a no-name businessman / artist, and you'll take your 45% and you'll like it. It's just a very bad situation. If they said 50-50 I would feel differently. Although I still feel that's unfair to the artist, at least I could say, "Well, I mean, they do have a huge company and I'm tapping into their marketplace, so, uh, I guess that's fair we share profits 50-50." But instead it's like they set it at 45% just to say, don't think for a minute you're the real deal here. WE are the real deal, we are Amazon.com, we don't need you, you are a small fry and matter little to us.
In my life I have spent a ton of money with Amazon.com, who knows how many thousands, well, I'm sure more than $10,000 on movies, books, and various products through them. I'm a frequent customer let's just put it that way, and I love them as a company for me when I'm the consumer.
As a businessman I have also made money from Amazon.com, I am not sure quite how much, but I know that in my previous online business ventures I made Amazon many thousands of dollars from referrals. I got paid my 4-5% commission and that was fine. Plus it's kind of cool to have Amazon.com write me a check for once, so there was that.
If I were to make a feature film, though, recouping my costs through that program would be virtually impossible I think. I'd rather take my chances with my own storefront where I could at least make $10 profit per DVD I sold. Even if I struggled to sell a few thousand copies, I would be able to make something back. If I made a feature I wouldn't spend less than $125,000 making it, so I'd probably need real distribution (straight-to-DVD would be fine, that'd be my goal really) to recoup costs.
In my life I have spent a ton of money with Amazon.com, who knows how many thousands, well, I'm sure more than $10,000 on movies, books, and various products through them. I'm a frequent customer let's just put it that way, and I love them as a company for me when I'm the consumer.
As a businessman I have also made money from Amazon.com, I am not sure quite how much, but I know that in my previous online business ventures I made Amazon many thousands of dollars from referrals. I got paid my 4-5% commission and that was fine. Plus it's kind of cool to have Amazon.com write me a check for once, so there was that.
If I were to make a feature film, though, recouping my costs through that program would be virtually impossible I think. I'd rather take my chances with my own storefront where I could at least make $10 profit per DVD I sold. Even if I struggled to sell a few thousand copies, I would be able to make something back. If I made a feature I wouldn't spend less than $125,000 making it, so I'd probably need real distribution (straight-to-DVD would be fine, that'd be my goal really) to recoup costs.
mastermind
Well-known member
fully agree with you Jonathan. Plus some people get to caught up in the "my movie is on amazon!!!!" hype. the problem with that is that you're a minow in an ocean of sharks. There is so much product on that site so how often is someone actually going to "fall" on your film. Yes they provide a marketplace but its completely oversaturated. My beleif is if you're shooting a non "studio" feature which is why I assume one would be going the indie distribution route, you're better off tying in a target demographic into your film and marketing specifically to them. You're not hoping that some stay at home mom will somehow fall onto your film as she surfs through amazon and buy a copy cus it looks cool. This way you can use youre own resources and free resources such as forums, message boards, blogs, myspace etc...and market your film specifically to that target audience.
IMO
IMO
mastermind
Well-known member
PS> anyone remember the name of that 3rd party dvd fulfillment company. I swear they were somehow affiliated with dvxuser and i can also almost swear the name starts with a K or C.....lol
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Yeah, mastermind is right, people aren't going to just stumble on your film and buy it that much. I have two books on Amazon, Anticipation: The Real Life Story of Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace and Revenge: The Real Life Story of Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith, and there are a lot of Star Wars fans but trust me nobody just randomly happens upon my books and buys them. It may have happened a few times, but pretty rarely. Usually it's from blogs, forums, articles, interviews, etc. about me or the books.
filmman
Veteran
http://www.releasing.net/ is a website for indie filmmakers. You can create your own releasing arm by attaching your own name to releasing, such as xyz.releasing.net
If there are many companies selling from releasing.net, the website will become a hub for indiefilmmakers releasing their own movies. We can even go to the AFM as a co-op.
email me if you're interested: vic@felliniesque.com
If there are many companies selling from releasing.net, the website will become a hub for indiefilmmakers releasing their own movies. We can even go to the AFM as a co-op.
email me if you're interested: vic@felliniesque.com
Mister Stocks
Well-known member
I believe you are asking about rocketindie , yes? I have never had an experience with them, but they have a forum subsection here... http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=86260
craigbowman
Veteran
You might want to give away a short or two in that fashion however, I'm gearing up to finally produce my first feature and I'm looking to get it distributed with a split rights deal. Why on earth would I want to slam most of the best windows shut by dumping it into online sales? Blech, P'Tui!
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
distribution is changing for the indie filmmaker. there is a series of videos featuring case studies and panel discussions with filmmakers on the cutting edge. http://cinefist.com/theater/
some of those videos took place at last year's Power to the Pixel filmmaker's forum during the Times BFI London Film Festival. This year, I'm being flown to London to screen I F*CKING HATE YOU and to take part in the 2008 Power to the Pixel event for an open discussion on the future of indie distribution. personally, i am a advocate of subscription-based models. keep your eye on changes in the way the music industry is evolving. it will likely happen there first.
some of those videos took place at last year's Power to the Pixel filmmaker's forum during the Times BFI London Film Festival. This year, I'm being flown to London to screen I F*CKING HATE YOU and to take part in the 2008 Power to the Pixel event for an open discussion on the future of indie distribution. personally, i am a advocate of subscription-based models. keep your eye on changes in the way the music industry is evolving. it will likely happen there first.
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Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
Also, i wanted to mention that I am part of a new discovery and distribution effort called "FROM HERE TO AWESOME" from Lance Weiler, Arin Crumley and M dot Strange. It has been an eye-opening experience and made me aware that conventional distribution models are designed to sustain an indie filmmaker's work and career.
To my mind, the biggest problem (as a filmmaker and cinephlie) is that the system is set up in such a way that audiences don’t have TRUE choices for content. The system favors the safe and familiar and “what’s worked before”. I wonder how many cutting edge, iconoclastic filmmakers have been passed over in recent decades because some suit couldn’t reduce their work to “it’s like RoboCop meets Pretty Woman”? I’d like to see this flipped on its head so that audiences have a portal through which they can access a vast array of content on demand and pull it toward them, rather than having distributors push selected content at them. This portal would navigate though a variety of methods including searches, intelligent recommendations, keyword tagging and metadata, and good old word of mouth through a social network that would also allow fans to interact and communicate with filmmakers thru live and recorded video as well as text-based discussion. For the suits reading this, “its like DirecTV meets Amazon VOD meets iTunes Store meets Facebook meets Google meets Video iChat meets Coppola’s Little Fat Girl all packaged into a 60″ HD television with webcam, harddrive, and broadband built-in”.
If today we are “Here” and our goal is to get to “Awesome”, i think we are right on the brink of the next “ipod moment” — a moment that changes the way content finds its audience. today’s independent filmmaker is moving closer to what we at Sabi Pictures call the interdependent filmmaker — one who embraces the value of community-based solutions for everything from education and production needs to sharing your audience with like-minded artists. my vision of “awesome” is a universal framework that supports the artist and his or her audience cyclicly. allowing the filmmaker to retain ownership of his or her work is paramount to the evolving models of distribution and I believe that Arin Crumley’s idea for a universal distribution agreement is a brilliant concept for defining a new relationship between filmmakers and outlets. the technology is such that the only thing holding back the low budget (yet equally skilled, compelling and entertaining) filmmaker from monetizing their efforts is an audience equipped with the tools to find them.
Being a part of the first wave of the FHTA project has been a massive awakening and education in terms of elevating my understanding of what can be done with a motion picture once it’s locked and ready for the world. It has emboldened me to truly take ownership of my films, to give myself permission to fail, to assert and define my place in the film world, to brave the ever-evolving models of self-distribution and to have courage in rejecting the conventional route toward distribution for independents such as myself.
the distribution opportunities provided by FHTA were not an end result in and of themselves. they were a door that opened to a whole new journey. I learned to pursue these opportunities with vigilance, to build upon them and to let them inspire new ideas for building an audience. if you’re not pushing your filmmaking forward in some manner every single day, then you’d better go out and hire a great publicist (and a team of interns) to do it for you. that, or turn in your indie credentials right now. haha!
I received a vast “DIY” education from Lance Weiler and Arin Crumley. I now understand how to build and sustain an audience and the importance of creating a framework for the filmmaker to interact and make himself or herself available to the people drawn to the work. I now know the value of transparency and the importance of giving myself permission to fail as I experiment with the newly emerging distribution models. I now know that I’m not alone in wanting to change the status quo by retaining ownership of my work and I know it will happen for us soon. It is only a matter of time, planning and effort.
To my mind, the biggest problem (as a filmmaker and cinephlie) is that the system is set up in such a way that audiences don’t have TRUE choices for content. The system favors the safe and familiar and “what’s worked before”. I wonder how many cutting edge, iconoclastic filmmakers have been passed over in recent decades because some suit couldn’t reduce their work to “it’s like RoboCop meets Pretty Woman”? I’d like to see this flipped on its head so that audiences have a portal through which they can access a vast array of content on demand and pull it toward them, rather than having distributors push selected content at them. This portal would navigate though a variety of methods including searches, intelligent recommendations, keyword tagging and metadata, and good old word of mouth through a social network that would also allow fans to interact and communicate with filmmakers thru live and recorded video as well as text-based discussion. For the suits reading this, “its like DirecTV meets Amazon VOD meets iTunes Store meets Facebook meets Google meets Video iChat meets Coppola’s Little Fat Girl all packaged into a 60″ HD television with webcam, harddrive, and broadband built-in”.
If today we are “Here” and our goal is to get to “Awesome”, i think we are right on the brink of the next “ipod moment” — a moment that changes the way content finds its audience. today’s independent filmmaker is moving closer to what we at Sabi Pictures call the interdependent filmmaker — one who embraces the value of community-based solutions for everything from education and production needs to sharing your audience with like-minded artists. my vision of “awesome” is a universal framework that supports the artist and his or her audience cyclicly. allowing the filmmaker to retain ownership of his or her work is paramount to the evolving models of distribution and I believe that Arin Crumley’s idea for a universal distribution agreement is a brilliant concept for defining a new relationship between filmmakers and outlets. the technology is such that the only thing holding back the low budget (yet equally skilled, compelling and entertaining) filmmaker from monetizing their efforts is an audience equipped with the tools to find them.
Being a part of the first wave of the FHTA project has been a massive awakening and education in terms of elevating my understanding of what can be done with a motion picture once it’s locked and ready for the world. It has emboldened me to truly take ownership of my films, to give myself permission to fail, to assert and define my place in the film world, to brave the ever-evolving models of self-distribution and to have courage in rejecting the conventional route toward distribution for independents such as myself.
the distribution opportunities provided by FHTA were not an end result in and of themselves. they were a door that opened to a whole new journey. I learned to pursue these opportunities with vigilance, to build upon them and to let them inspire new ideas for building an audience. if you’re not pushing your filmmaking forward in some manner every single day, then you’d better go out and hire a great publicist (and a team of interns) to do it for you. that, or turn in your indie credentials right now. haha!
I received a vast “DIY” education from Lance Weiler and Arin Crumley. I now understand how to build and sustain an audience and the importance of creating a framework for the filmmaker to interact and make himself or herself available to the people drawn to the work. I now know the value of transparency and the importance of giving myself permission to fail as I experiment with the newly emerging distribution models. I now know that I’m not alone in wanting to change the status quo by retaining ownership of my work and I know it will happen for us soon. It is only a matter of time, planning and effort.
Amazon is cheap I thought?
Amazon is cheap I thought?
I was just checking into this the other day....It seems it is very cheap to sell on amazon, and they take a small cut (something like 15% for DVD's) depending on what you are selling. Problem is, you need to have a product page/listing to sell it. You have to be a Pro Merchant subscriber to make a page. I was thinking of paying the PM subscriber fee just to create a page, then cancel since it says the page is permanent, then selling from that page for the small fee. Anyone else thought of that?
Here is what I found on Amazon:
Amazon.com collects fees only when your item sells. At that time, Amazon.com collects your sales price and shipping costs from the buyer, deducts a commission of 6 to 15 percent of the sales price, a per-transaction fee of $0.99, and a variable closing fee. The $0.99 per-transaction fee is waived for Pro Merchant Subscribers.
Commission rates are as follows:
DVD's- $0.80.
Create Product Pages
List a new product in our Amazon.com stores that is not currently found there. New products will appear alongside products offered by merchants and by Amazon.com itself.
Learn how to create a page.
Create a Product Detail Page
Create a Product Detail Page is a means of listing a new product in our Amazon.com stores that is not currently found there. New products will appear alongside products offered by merchants and by Amazon.com itself. Pages become a permanent part of our catalog, and you--along with other sellers--can list copies of the product for sale through Amazon Marketplace.
Benefits include the following:
Amazon is cheap I thought?
I was just checking into this the other day....It seems it is very cheap to sell on amazon, and they take a small cut (something like 15% for DVD's) depending on what you are selling. Problem is, you need to have a product page/listing to sell it. You have to be a Pro Merchant subscriber to make a page. I was thinking of paying the PM subscriber fee just to create a page, then cancel since it says the page is permanent, then selling from that page for the small fee. Anyone else thought of that?
Here is what I found on Amazon:
Amazon.com collects fees only when your item sells. At that time, Amazon.com collects your sales price and shipping costs from the buyer, deducts a commission of 6 to 15 percent of the sales price, a per-transaction fee of $0.99, and a variable closing fee. The $0.99 per-transaction fee is waived for Pro Merchant Subscribers.
Commission rates are as follows:
- Automotive parts and accessories = 12 percent
- Camera and photo = 8 percent
- Cell phones and accessories = 15 percent
- Computers = 6 percent
- Electronic items = 8 percent
- Items in the Everything Else store = 15 percent
- Musical instruments = 12 percent
- Watches = 13 percent
- All other product lines = 15 percent
DVD's- $0.80.
Create Product Pages
List a new product in our Amazon.com stores that is not currently found there. New products will appear alongside products offered by merchants and by Amazon.com itself.
Learn how to create a page.
Create a Product Detail Page
Create a Product Detail Page is a means of listing a new product in our Amazon.com stores that is not currently found there. New products will appear alongside products offered by merchants and by Amazon.com itself. Pages become a permanent part of our catalog, and you--along with other sellers--can list copies of the product for sale through Amazon Marketplace.
Benefits include the following:
- Customers can find pages through search and browse.
- Buyers can purchase these new products through Marketplace, adding copies to the shopping cart.
- Products can be added to Wish Lists.
- Marketplace sales benefit from a wide range of payment options, including Amazon gift certificates.
craigbowman
Veteran
That's because most pictures at film markets are bundled. If the distributor wants a particular picture they have to buy the bundle. It also costs the same to attend the market whether you're flogging one picture or four.
filmman
Veteran
That's right, Craig. However, I don't bundle pictures (cross-collateralise). I sell each picture separately and pay the producer according to what the buyer paid, minus a fixed distribution fee agreed upon in advance. It's not hard to do, but the problem is that many distributors package their own produced movies with an indie filmmaker's movie and then tell the producer that the buyer paid the same price for both movies. Of course, if they have the better movie, they don't do that. LOL But that's the problem. I never do that to any filmmaker. I think a filmmakers co-op will work great if a small group of filmmakers decide to trust each other and put their movies into the hands of one distributor/agent to represent them. I know for a fact that this is the best model for indie distribution. We can get the most money -- by far. With so many indie filmmakers with movies that no distributor wants to pick up, what other choice do we have? And how many distributors pay advances to indie filmmakers these days?
I like what Zak is writing about. It's the future I'm sure, but at this point small filmmakers will get lost in the shuffle. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there for indie films. For short films and avant garde films, ok. I say go ahead and throw your film in the shuffle, but if you've made a standard Hollywood style movie and spent around $100,000 you have to get your money out or suffer the consequences. If it's your own money, then you won't be able to make another film for years -- if ever. If it's investor money, nobody is going to invest in your movies again -- unless you go to some foreign country where nobody has heard of you.
These are my opinions. I don't want 1000 filmmakers to agree with me; just 5 or 6
I like what Zak is writing about. It's the future I'm sure, but at this point small filmmakers will get lost in the shuffle. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there for indie films. For short films and avant garde films, ok. I say go ahead and throw your film in the shuffle, but if you've made a standard Hollywood style movie and spent around $100,000 you have to get your money out or suffer the consequences. If it's your own money, then you won't be able to make another film for years -- if ever. If it's investor money, nobody is going to invest in your movies again -- unless you go to some foreign country where nobody has heard of you.
These are my opinions. I don't want 1000 filmmakers to agree with me; just 5 or 6
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Yeah... well that's the issue, really.
But I've heard so much conflicting information on indie films, sometimes I think you have to be a bit stubborn to make it *as long as you are willing to suffer the consequences* if things don't work out. I've been talking with a few people about a feature I intend to shoot, and one of the people has the most valuable opinions because this is really what he does, he's primarily a feature film unit production manager (who also is sometimes a post-production supervisor). I worked with him on a music video, so he does other projects as well, but we were discussing features as investments and whatnot, and he says if you spend less than $300,000, attach some name talent to it, and it's a professional product, making your money back is no problem. Not to say it's guaranteed but it's not a lottery, either, it's quite doable. Considering he's worked as a UPM in the same genre I'm trying to do, even, and has a lot of these connections, I feel that it's something worth pursuing. I've been hot and cold on my feature project because I really want to go ahead with it, and I have it basically outlined, I've set aside a few weeks to write a rough draft of the script this year, about 3-4 weeks actually where I don't have anything else I must do (writing is fairly fast for me, outline takes FOREVER, because it's the scenes, figuring out what happens when, how characters act, their motivations, etc. that takes forever. Once I have that all in my mind or on paper, in various notes, actually making it happen seems a lot easier). But sometimes I've felt gung-ho like, yeah, I'm going to do this, no problem, I know I have the money to go ahead with it and the location secured when I need it, but I've also wanted to make sure I've done my homework and have a chance at recouping my investment. I am not looking to get rich or even make money but god knows I don't want to lose it all! haha.
Plus when I raised issues with the UPM about getting a B-list actor for $25,000 a week, he said absolutely no problem at all. He has those connections and said it's totally doable. On here, I've heard some people say yeah, no problem, and others say, no, no way. Haha.
But I've heard so much conflicting information on indie films, sometimes I think you have to be a bit stubborn to make it *as long as you are willing to suffer the consequences* if things don't work out. I've been talking with a few people about a feature I intend to shoot, and one of the people has the most valuable opinions because this is really what he does, he's primarily a feature film unit production manager (who also is sometimes a post-production supervisor). I worked with him on a music video, so he does other projects as well, but we were discussing features as investments and whatnot, and he says if you spend less than $300,000, attach some name talent to it, and it's a professional product, making your money back is no problem. Not to say it's guaranteed but it's not a lottery, either, it's quite doable. Considering he's worked as a UPM in the same genre I'm trying to do, even, and has a lot of these connections, I feel that it's something worth pursuing. I've been hot and cold on my feature project because I really want to go ahead with it, and I have it basically outlined, I've set aside a few weeks to write a rough draft of the script this year, about 3-4 weeks actually where I don't have anything else I must do (writing is fairly fast for me, outline takes FOREVER, because it's the scenes, figuring out what happens when, how characters act, their motivations, etc. that takes forever. Once I have that all in my mind or on paper, in various notes, actually making it happen seems a lot easier). But sometimes I've felt gung-ho like, yeah, I'm going to do this, no problem, I know I have the money to go ahead with it and the location secured when I need it, but I've also wanted to make sure I've done my homework and have a chance at recouping my investment. I am not looking to get rich or even make money but god knows I don't want to lose it all! haha.
Plus when I raised issues with the UPM about getting a B-list actor for $25,000 a week, he said absolutely no problem at all. He has those connections and said it's totally doable. On here, I've heard some people say yeah, no problem, and others say, no, no way. Haha.
craigbowman
Veteran
So filmman, do you distribute in north america or only offshore through film markets?