Director's viewfinder

I'm partial to the Cavision compact finder. Since I do a lot of location scouting, and since I usually travel by motorcycle, bringing even something so small as a DVX isn't very comfortable for me.

When I scout with the finder, I can pretty rapidly get a general sense of what the camera department can get from any given setup point, and - if the director has deigned to communicate clearly what he/she has in mind - how hard to push a specific location.

Plus, it makes you look good, when the production designer, or director, or producer is trying to get a lock on how a particular location or set will shoot, and you can just hand them the appropriate tool and say: look through this.
 
Sure, I take digital pictures and huge-ass pans of everything (and one of our illustrators has this technique where he can reverse-project the location pans, and create overlay illustrations that are just...full-screen drool).

I use Sketchup's "photomatch" function to extract location geometry from pictures, but (a) it's not really suited to starting from stitched pans and (b) there is no substitute, for putting the tape and rolly to a location.


But, knowing generally what camera-placement-plus-lens-selection will give us what image from what spot, is helpful when I sit down with the director. And my digital ELPH is not the tool to use, for that.
 
sad max, I'm writing a character that is a location scout so I'd be curious to hear what a typical scout encompasses -- what you look for, what you capture, how you capture it, and who you report to. do you "pitch" ideas for locations? or are you told where to go? or both? it sounds like a great job. how much of it do you do alone and as part of a team? I'd love to hear more about, not just for my story, but for my own curiosity.
 
I'm not a dedicated location scout (some people do that, and it's all they do); it's rolled into my work as a set designer/art director/production designer.

Location scouts usually work with location managers; what they look for is (a) suitability of a given location (look, proximity to studio, accessibility) (b) availability of a given location (hours, utilities, facilities, fees) (c) utility of a given location (are transpo, camera, lighting, art, sound, etc going to be able to work there).

In the end the scouts hand in reference photos, location maps, rate and availability schedules (to the extent they can compile them) to the location manager, who then sits down with the director, producers, dept heads, etc to determine which locations are worth *their* scouting. Once that's narrowed down, tech scouts follow so that the various interested departments can satisfy themselves as to how they'll exploit the location.

Since several departments have vested interests in which location gets picked, the final choice is usually a compromise to suit everyone's needs as best as possible (TV) or straight-up giving the director what he wants (Film, subject to budget).

First contact with a given site is usually solo, and the information brought back determines if a larger scouting party revisits it down the road. There's lots of photo-coverage so that people back at the office can get a feel for a place, and usually plan (and sometimes elevations) surveying to work out staging and spotting.

The degree to which a scout works directly with directors or producers depends upon the particular show. Usually, he doesn't; that's the location manager's brief. Since my position is actually a little different, I usually have more freedom to pitch/slam/whatever a given location with which I'm dealing. But I always respect the location manager's privilege, if there's one on the show.
 
Sad Max said:
I use Sketchup's "photomatch" function to extract location geometry from pictures, but (a) it's not really suited to starting from stitched pans and (b) there is no substitute, for putting the tape and rolly to a location.
Click to expand...

Hmm, tell me more about this! Every few months I dust off SketchUp for some little tiny job, but I'd love any excuse to use it more. It's an incredibly well-designed piece of software.
 
That's funny; coming at Sketchup from a Lightwave/Maya/Rhino background, "well-designed" is not a phrase I'd use. But then, it's unfair to expect Sketchup to operate on the same philosophy as those tools; it's a different creature. And, the more I use Sketchup, the more I find myself trying to use certain Sketchup functions in Lightwave, where they don't exist (although I'm increasingly remapping both interfaces so that similar commands access in similar ways...)

Anyway, Photomatch allows you to import a photo, and establish horizon and perspective lines by drawing over it, and as you trace over a wall in the photo, Sketchup calculates actual geometry based upon your inputs. So with a few decent pictures of, say, a big ol' factory interior, you can construct fairly accurate 3D geometry of the structure, with your reference pictures automatically mapped on.

Very handy.
 
The viewfinders are necessary when a) the director doesn't know his focal lengths b) you're not using zoom lenses but primes (fixed focal length lenses) c) the camera is heavy (try an old BNCR - set it up here, no, here... how about let's move it over.. here... no... the thing weighs over a hundred pounds and by the time you've finished moving it around that many times for a single shot, the day is done. I exaggerate, of course, for effect ) d) there's camera movement (jib, track shots) involved. Same philosophy but now it's even more hassle to lay rail/track, level it, put the dolly on, put the camera on, put the lens on,then "no,.... not quite what I had in mind".

SO it was only a matter of time before some bright DP took the viewfinder off the Mitchell and said "here, take this. I had it specially removed, just for you. Go move around, look through it, go higher, lower, change lenses like this... and when you're done call me over and let me have a look at what you had in mind".

Kinda like that.

I used one on a beginning director (well, a very experienced director, but theatrical, not film) just last week. He learned how to use it, scoffed at it for about 30 seconds, then thereafter clutched at it like it was a life raft because now, suddenly, he had a very direct, simple and convenient way to convey what it was that he had in mind, exactly.

Before we set the cameras.

HTH
Cheers
Chris
 
the reason for a viewfinder is not just zooming in and out to find a shot. Once the shot is decided on its useful to consider the various aspect ratios for deliveries. I don't know of any prosumer cameras with ground glass markings.
So here the viewfinder is useful. Shooting in 16x9 you need to consider 4x3 or 1:85; 2:35 for theatrical. If you sell your movie your distributor will most likely ask for a full screen, a 4x3 with letterbox and (maybe) a 16x9 version. A directors finder will help you consider image loss over these formats so that when you make your full screen version your actors aren't cut off at the head.
 
Well, personally what I do is that I take my small digital camera and take a pic of the set on the widest focal lenght. I know that in my camera the widest spot corresponds to a 24mm lens. So as easy as this: If it doesn´t fit in there I`ll get a 20mm or a 17mm just for that day. As for longer lenghts they would just fit in there with no problem.
 
Does anyone know if a director's viewfinder (like the Alan Gordon Mark V: http://www.alangordon.com/s_camaccessories_markvb.html) does actually focus images, so that the out of focus elements look just like they will look on screen?

In other words, is it an afocal system -- does it focus light rays or not ?

People who have used other director's viewfinders have mentioned that it does NOT focus light rays (it's afocal), hence is useless to judge focus and depth of field -- what you see in it then feels completely different from what the image will look like on screen (although the framing is the same).

However, in the case of the Mark V Director's Viewfinder, the manufacturer's description (link above) mentions an "Adjustable Focusing Ring", so I'm not sure.

Has anyone actually used the Alan Gordon Mark V or other director's viewfinders -- how does the focus work?

Thanks

[I just found this thread, I already posted the same question in the cinematography forum, sorry for the double post]
 
Hairy Lime said:
Top one on this page appears to work for DV, HD, 16mm, and 35mm views. Am I reading that right?

The Universal Mini Viewfinder now has digital scales for Canon, Sony, and other 1/3" chip cameras. It covers the standard 16 and 35mm film formats as well as 1/2" DV and 2/3" HD cameras. The Viewfinder focal lengths are 4mm to 35mm for 1/3" chip cameras like the Canon XL1s, Sony PD-150 and Panasonic DVX-100.
Click to expand...
The first one listed here -- http://www.duallcamera.com/store/DirectorsViewfinders.shtml

covers more video formats for a few bucks less.

ldb
 
director's viewfinder discussion

director's viewfinder discussion

I was in my lazy ass editing station working for some videos with my dvx-100b, and I started remembering how bad I was directing my actors without realizing how bad my camera work was done. All of the sudden, it came to my mind that beautiful and funny device that some big time directors use in those big budget productions.

Yes, the magical and inspirational DIRECTOR'S VIEWFINDER. Funny, jajaja

OK. I read this incredible discussion about a the viewfinder. I found very difficult to follow all those advice, and some that not advice but attacks. The big issue is that--guys,--we are just passing the ball of the discussion of whether is useful or not for some directors and DPs.

By following your statements this is what I came up:

DIRECTOR'S VIEWFINDER is useful when you have:

- a big budget production.
- a large crew.
-heavy equipment.
-complex camera movements.
- a complex communication with your director [if you are DP] or your DP [if you are the director] and your crew.
- A combination from the previous points mentioned.

DIRECTOR'S VIEWFINDER is NOT useful (or NOT necessary) when you have:

-a low or no budget film.
-a very small crew.
- you are working with a small DV or HD camera (i.e. DVX, CANON, camcorders from best buy, you name'em)
- when you are the director and the DP.
- a combination from the previous points mentioned.

Something that I found very common is that, unless you carry an small camcorder, you can use it for:

-Scouting Locations.
- or....stalking someone and telling her/him that she/he has talent to be a movie star.:Drogar-Happy(DBG):...
- or scouting locations and if you see a hot girl, you just pretend that you know what you are doing and you invite her to go out.:tongue: [OK, I am just joking but it's something that I would love to try:happy:.]

Back to seriousness, HAVING and/or USING a VIEWFINDER is like someone trying to buy a car between a 2010 CAMARO and a 1997 CAVALIER--A luxury for some, a necessity for others--IT'S YOUR BUDGET WHAT MATTERS IN HERE. [Please don't come up with "you can take the bus or ride on bike" that would be like working for stop motion animation or being a one-man-crew]


This is not like because your friend has it or you saw it in the movies, you want to have it too. Is based upon the complexity of the production itself.

So back to my my purpose of this post, and don't ask me why I want it.

I own a DVX-100B, and I am looking for a viewfinder "compatible" with my camera. When I mean compatible I am saying of easy to read and input those settings to the DVX.
I am looking for the GNC brand (never heard of GNC?: Good, Nice, and Cheap:Drogar-Happy(DBG):) and includes good tech support with warranty.

I was thinking about the Cavision VDL-11X 11x, anybody has objection of this viewfinder?

Any recommendations are welcome.

Thank you very much for reading this post.
 
Sad Max said:
I'm partial to the Cavision compact finder. Since I do a lot of location scouting, and since I usually travel by motorcycle, bringing even something so small as a DVX isn't very comfortable for me.

When I scout with the finder, I can pretty rapidly get a general sense of what the camera department can get from any given setup point, and - if the director has deigned to communicate clearly what he/she has in mind - how hard to push a specific location.

Plus, it makes you look good, when the production designer, or director, or producer is trying to get a lock on how a particular location or set will shoot, and you can just hand them the appropriate tool and say: look through this.
Click to expand...

We have the compact and full-size directors viewfinders on sale - be sure to drop this month's DVXUser discount in when you check out! NAB2010
 
SomeRandomGuy06 said:
Does anyone know if a director's viewfinder (like the Alan Gordon Mark V: http://www.alangordon.com/s_camaccessories_markvb.html) does actually focus images, so that the out of focus elements look just like they will look on screen?

In other words, is it an afocal system -- does it focus light rays or not ?

People who have used other director's viewfinders have mentioned that it does NOT focus light rays (it's afocal), hence is useless to judge focus and depth of field -- what you see in it then feels completely different from what the image will look like on screen (although the framing is the same).

However, in the case of the Mark V Director's Viewfinder, the manufacturer's description (link above) mentions an "Adjustable Focusing Ring", so I'm not sure.

Has anyone actually used the Alan Gordon Mark V or other director's viewfinders -- how does the focus work?

Thanks

[I just found this thread, I already posted the same question in the cinematography forum, sorry for the double post]
Click to expand...

I own the Mark VB and it will not give you the DOF as you would see in a regular camera. Just framing.

For me it is essential, I am very familiar with my Primes I own/rent but every now and than I will get a shot that I cannot determine just by looking at it what focal lenght I want.

For example last week I needed to determine placement of dolly tracks using a 35mm Arri Prime to caprture a low angle fast move of someone climbing a fence. I needed the viewfinder to reverse engineer the distance .

For me it's crucial, it helps me check my work and lets everyone on the set know I am more important than they are :cheesy: (hasnt worked yet). If I was shooting with a DVX100 (or similar) I would not need it.

The determine DOF I use the Kelly calculator.
http://www.filmtools.com/keciv3caakak.html
 
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