Directors outsourcing VFX Q

[Gord.T]

Often directors need a VFX shot done. How do you approach that when talking to a VFX employee? What do you provide to help the client see your vision through?

...

A few of my experiences, not as a pro mind you.

I have often found directors 'don't' have a vision and can't describe it. They often just have an idea.

imo, the director is supposed to direct the scene, whether a VFX shot or not. Specifically CGI.

I've been handed story boards with nothing more than what can best be described as a 'concept'. That's not a story board. And that's not directing imo.

e.g. "A person is walking through the desert and an IED goes off and he goes flying." That's the kind of crap I get sometimes.

I have dealt with a 'few' low budget directors that have no idea what they want. And it wastes so much of my time that I can't bear to even respond to anyone anymore that does not know wtf they want.

Imo, if your the director then your directing everything. Including the VFX shots.
At least on storyboard and hopefully with some enthusiastic suggestions.

Sorry to babble on. Frustrating. But from my pov, your the director, so, 'direct' the scenes even if they are VFX. We'll work with that.

And the more resources one can provide in all stages of the process the better.

 

[jasonthewho]

This is an interesting topic to discuss.

I just had my first experience working with VFX artists on my last short. I have to admit that I could have done a better job. For instance, I didn't provide storyboards. Not to say I didn't try to articulate what I wanted, but there are several difficulties.

For one, I didn't always know what my artist(s) were capable of.

Two, I didn't want to cripple their creative expression. I come from the theater world, where a designer is expected to come to the table with a bunch of ideas, not just execute the director's vision. Of course, the director will bring his own ideas and together the two will mold the ideas into the final product. With the director ultimately responsible for the end result. I would presume the same would go for working with a VFX artist.

Out of curiousity, did you have footage for the shot "A person is walking through the desert and an IED goes off and he goes flying."? Because if all you needed to do was provide the explosion, I would expect you would be capable of researching the type of explosion that would be typical, and putting it in (assuming you have the footage of the actor in the desert, with him flying off).

 

[Gord.T]

I admit I maybe could have worded that better.

You have some good points there as to knowing what the VFX clients are capable of and then working from there.
But from my pov, and it may just be my own, I'm not speaking for any community, is that I prefer the shots to be storyboarded as how the director wishes it. The camera angles particularly as you would story board for a camera man. The actual VFX look can just be sketched in, like some squigelles for an explosion or an energy field effect ect.
Flying debris could be just sketched lines. I don't expect the actual effect to be hand drawn in any detail. More of the camera direction and timing of the effects I'd be concerned about.

The example I gave was a hypothetical situation (I have no intention of specifically offending anyone.). Pretty typical. And most directors have been fine. A few have been impossible and I've read that this is typical amongst the big league guys as well. It's a situation where the more a director is removed from understanding VFX techniques, the more he thinks everything is magic where in fact it's a huge amount of technical work.

Like I say, most are fine. All I would personally ask is that the story board be created as if you were directing any other shot. Simple sketches are fine. The camera is important though. Also the scene. At some point references or actual footage will be needed ofcourse.
But never worry about whether or not a VFX shot can be done imo. Write it the way you want to see it. Then ask your VFX guys thier opinions on it. Don't design your shots around what your VFX guys can currently do or what they feel like doing. See the difference there?

So, I would prefer you start with what you want, and then we could go from there. Not the other way around. Does that make sense?

But yeah, when working with a director, I really like to feel that the director is in control and I know that the shots will fit into the story. There is a level of technical VFX directing that takes place after that that's handled on the VFX end, but that's not what I'm getting at.


I suppose a good example might be a passage from a book that's well written.
Maybe it describes an event or effect that you can easily imagine.
Then the camera ofcourse has to be directed the same as you would a real cameraman.
Combine those 2 and that would be an ideal approach. From there the rest could be worked out efficiently.

Maybe I'll have to think about how I can reword this a little better.
Hope I made some sense.

 

[jasonthewho]

I definitely agree with you in principal. I think being specific is one of the best traits a director can have.

The thing I wonder about (and I wonder about it for other areas other than VFX) is where you cross the line from being specific about what you want, to being controlling and close-minded.

So, I would prefer you start with what you want, and then we could go from there. Not the other way around. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess my concern comes with the fact that at my level, I can rarely afford to pay anyone. And if my VFX guy's working for free, I might rather give him an easier task than think too big. However, I realize that whenever possible in filmmaking, you shouldn't "settle". That's one of the biggest things I have to work on in my own directing.

I do really appreciate your POV on the whole situation, since you're coming at it from the opposite side as me. I always want everyone working on one of my films to enjoy it and not be frustrated by it, so it's good to hear the best way to work with your VFX artist.

 

[Gord.T]

I know what you mean. It's okay to ask "can you do something like this?" or "how hard would it be to..." and things like that. That might get you in the ballpark when asking around.

In the end it still depends on the actual shot and number of shots because the VFX would be optimized for every shot. So if you decide to change the camera later on it could be that the FX have to be redone from scratch essentially. So story boards should be made up.

There's "Visual Effects for Directors" from "Hollywood Camera Work" that might be worth taking a look at.