Director and DP Relationship

I

issarafree

Member
I'm a new director and have never worked with a crew. I will soon have a small one and I was wondering how much freedom do I give to the Director of photography to dictate camera work/movement/framing. I come from a visual 2D background so movement is a new consideration. I'm also sure different directors like to have more control while others may want more collaborative input. Basically I'm wondering how mapped out my ideas on camera placement and movement have to be outlined before we even scout a location. Any advise or shared experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
I'm sure the more you storyboard your project the closer the DOP will be to your thoughts....but you probably should have a meeting and discuss your concerns before production starts. Better to plan ahead than have a problem arise in front of cast and crew.

Good luck!
 
Thanks. As someone who has done art in some form my whole life, i have found that large amounts of pre-planning always killed the experience for me. Film seems to be something that requires that. I'm trying to work in my impulsivity into the craft without heavily storyboarding or overthinking, but also being prepared to get everything i need shot.
 
Then just chat with him and ask him straight up.

"Hey mate, how do you like to work? You prefer me hands on/off with camera move etc, or are you open to my input because I'd like to XYZ" Then let the conversation roll. If you hit a wall where he goes "I want NO input from you, I do it all" and you're thinking "I really feel that I want the moves and framings I want, not his" then you're probably not going to work well together and either call it a day, or just give in and learn.

Then of course there can be the compromise where you might say "This scene's really interesting and I'd like a tight shot because....." and then let him sort of take that and suggest/do the final framing. He might offer dutch angle a bit, or slightly wider, maybe suggest wide angle in close or whatever.

I'm not too experienced but if one thing destroys your flame and passion, that's giving over to everyone who wants to be the director. Don't sell yourself short push for your desires but just don't be a prick about it. You can't please em all.
 
First time directors need a GREAT DP. Surronding yourself with good people on your crew is very important. Don't let your ego start with: "It's my way or the highway" attitude. A great AD is just as important...
Don't make the mistake of using your friend who shot his first, 3 minute film last week , shoot your film. Invest in a pro, who can teach you, open your eyes, work in less than perfect situations, who knows something about lighting ..err , alot about lighting....Don't get a DP who likes to shoot everything at the same focal length, but just moves the camera closer for the closeup and further away for the wide shot. Get someone that you can depend on, so you can spend more time with your actors and getting the best performance out of them. Someone who knows about the gear they use would be useful. Some DP's these days, don't even shoot their own cameras, they use their favortite camera operators.
 
issarafree said:
Thanks. As someone who has done art in some form my whole life, i have found that large amounts of pre-planning always killed the experience for me. Film seems to be something that requires that. I'm trying to work in my impulsivity into the craft without heavily storyboarding or overthinking, but also being prepared to get everything i need shot.
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Follow your intuition and experience as an artist. One artform informs another. Only you know the "right" way for you to work. While filmmaking requires extensive preparation - you had better know what you want a scene to communicate to an audience before you forge ahead - pre-planning is NOT a requirement. For some it is deadly. The "to storyboard or not to storyboard" thing has been beat to death. Some feel they need it, some feel they don't. It all comes down to what type of creator you are. As in any craft or artform. BUT be prepared to spend a lot more time if you need to work impulsively. As far as the director/DP relationship goes; try to find someone who shares your sensibility or is willing to have your sensibility imposed upon themself. You'll soon find out how much you need to direct them or need to stay out of their way when you start shooting. And if you can't communicate with them, get rid of them and find someone else. You don't need to have anything mapped out beforehand unless you need to. Everyone works differently,or should anyway. It all depends on what works best for you and what you want the final result to be.
 
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I would caution you not to go in and freeball your shoot. I also like to keep my options open, listening to that "instant muse" and shoot from the hip, but there is some middle ground you should think about living in here.

We just shot a short this last weekend. The last day we had 50 different set-ups, adding some shots that weren't on the shot list and combining others. I did some extensive storyboarding and made a shot list and went over it with my DP before and during the shoot. I think it is crucial to have things mapped out beforehand to give you something to fall back on. You can always ignore it and shoot different angles etc., but it is nice to know that you have covered yourself. At the end of the day, it doesn't hurt...there are so many other decisions to worry about on set that can interfere with your thinking.

The Director/DP relationship is vital. You need to find someone you work with well. I'm not a technical director, so I knew I wanted to work with someone that was more knowledgeable about that aspect so I could concentrate on the acting, visuals, pace, etc of the performances. Basically, it was yin and yang. He was there to tell me about lenses, lighting, etc. so I could be more "artsy" with my choices. Having someone from the opposite side helped us cover all considerations that went into a shot: "Lighting, tone, what the scene is about, movement, etc." This is what worked for me. Don't shortchange your actors or your film will suffer.

Finally, uh, YOU are the director and it is YOUR vision from this point on. This doesn't mean having an ego and dictating...it means directing. Film is collaboration, but it needs ONE person bringing it all together. Listen to other people's advice, suggestions (especially your DP and actors), but ultimately it is YOUR decision. If your DP doesn't want you to tell him/her what the shots are, you're in trouble and need to find a different DP....fast. There is a lot of pressure associated with being a director because everyone should be looking to you for the answers. The picture will be rudderless if an actor goes to the writer. producer, DP for direction. Don't allow yourself to be undercut...it will frustrate everyone. Again, I'm not saying you should be a tyrannt. The exact opposite in fact. Listen to people, but be prepared to act with conviction and decisiveness. After you decide that "This is what is going to happen," that should be the end of it.

Hiring a pro is very sound advice. You can get someone extremely good for little money.

Long post, so to summarize: Give yourself the freedom on set to work however you want to work. This means doing the dirty work beforehand. Knowing you have a plan will free you up. Seems conflicting maybe, but it's true. And when you decide to do something, make sure everyone follows YOUR lead. You can always shoot 2 different ideas if you have time, but make sure you get the shots that you want.

Besties,
Mischief
 
Lead from the front. If you don't have the knowledge learn from someone who has. It's all collaboration.

DP/Director relationship is a special one (once you find the right person you tend to stick with them) If your not good technically, a good DP will make you look 100 times better. Learn first then gather your skills and implement.

I started not using storyboards but the bigger/ more complex the shoot, I found my overall coverage was weak, at least have a shot list. Remember that all the things that usually go wrong on the day, will, better to have some prep.

and last...everyones input on the day will seem like all yours in the finished project.

All the best on your journey my friend.
J.P.
 
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The DP is brother to the Director as water is to rain.
There needs to be a fire wire from brain to brain.
Spidey and I have done 4 projects together over the past year and we are to the point where we barely have to talk to one another while shooting. We know all of the same movie references. When I direct now, I have no doubt. That has been a first for me.

The DP needs to be allowed to paint. The is some question with some on who controls the image. They both do. From that point the DP sets his Keys in motion and the Director goes to work with the soup of actors. The trust should ride from there until...
One should never push to far on the other. The Director should be allow to say yes or no on a composition. The DP should be allowed to give visual advice to the Director.

It's more how you get along with those around you in a high stress situation than it is anything else.

Respect and friendship has always worked for the Good as a Mugg crew.
 
The DP needs to be allowed to paint.
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The relationship between DP and Director is mysterious. It's almost like the DP is allowed to create their art within your art. And they have to win your trust. And you must be the boss. But once you trust them, it's almost effortless.
 
PJC said:
The relationship between DP and Director is mysterious. It's almost like the DP is allowed to create their art within your art. And they have to win your trust. And you must be the boss. But once you trust them, it's almost effortless.
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Well put.
 
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