Directing wanting help on music copyright issue

R

rc444

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

hopefully this is the right forum for this sort of question. I couldn't find the right forum, but this does relate to directing.

I'm wanting to write and direct a short film and have a question:

I'm thinking of doing something that has never been done before with a short film. I'm wanting to use the lyrics of a song as dialogue for the characters. Obviously, because the song is copyrighted, I'm not intending to include the actual music in the film.

The lyrics I was wanting to use for the dialogue is from the song "Station to Station" by David Bowie. If I just had a character speaking the lyrics in the film, would this be okay?

Also, what is the rule if you want to use MIDI files in your film? If Joe Bloggs for the sake of argument, created his own MIDI version of an Iron Maiden song, say for example Holy Smoke, and then say posted this MIDI up at free midis dot com etc, if I used this song and just acknowledged Joe for using his MIDI, would that be enough? Or would I run the risk of EMI suing me (and Joe) if they happened to watch my film?

Regards,
David Morrah.
 
Nope. The lyrics themselves are copyrighted. That would be no more okay than if you took the lyrics, played your own instruments, and sang them in a recording, which you then wanted to sell, distribute or play for an audience.

The MIDI recording -- same problem. The music is copyrighted. Nobody can play it on their own instruments for any purpose (like live performance, recording, etc.) without permission. You can't even have a character WHISTLE "Happy Birthday" without permission.

Sorry. :(
 
It is much cheaper to license a song to do your own cover than the original performers version. It is probably even cheaper to license just the lyrics. Heck Bowie might just like the idea and give you free reign if you ASK him. Trent Reznor just decided he wants to let remixers remix his material and is not only providing the community with his bedding tracks, he is HOSTING THE COMMUNITY ON HIS OWN SERVERS AND DOMAIN. http://remix.nin.com/ He is protecting people who his label see as copyright violators.

Now you can film and edit a film using anyones copyrighted music. You just can't sell it on DVD, show it publicly, post it on the internet, or 'publish, or distribute it" without licensing its copyrighted content. Often licensing of a well known song can sink the budget on a film, most of the budget for American Graffiti went to music licensing, and ate up so much of the budget that most of the actors had to work for free/deferred payment.

That being said I have 2 bands that have given me free license to do anything with their material I want. They aren't big label and their songs aren't classics though...but they're still great .Sometimes when you ask people will give.
 
Is Happy Birthday copyrighted??? I didn't know that. Yikes. But I can't say I've heard of anyone being arrested for using Happy Birthday without permission.
 
Seek out bands

Seek out bands

Being a musician, I have run into this crap more often than not. Seek out bands in your area and build a relationship with them. Most movies have original music that is striking and composed just for that project- Punch Drunk Love, Eternal Sunshine, and a myriad of others have soundtracks that are wonderful. Start with some shorts and allow the bands to use them for ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC credit if they are just starting out. If you are doing a feature, work out a deal with the bands. Also, help compose some of the original music whether it be a few riffs, or a couple of melodic idea, or some lyrics and get on as a writer so you are entitled to partial ownership of the master and writing credits also, that way you partially control the action.

That being said, its just frigging easier! Bands are like computers, they are every where and most are broke.

Plus, if you want the best and most direct results, a good entertainment lawyer is the way to go but it is expensive and the negotions can get long... trust me!
 
rc444 said:
Hi everyone,
I'm thinking of doing something that has never been done before with a short film. I'm wanting to use the lyrics of a song as dialogue for the characters. Obviously, because the song is copyrighted, I'm not intending to include the actual music in the film.
.
Click to expand...




I've actually thought about doing that before, but the copyright thing is what I always thought about. It's a great idea and if you ever get it into production let us know. I would love to see how it works out.
 
Anyway, no offense, but this has been done, at least in part, occasionally before. IIRC, e.g., Moulin Rouge has whole scenes where dialog is spoken song lyirics... I've seen a short films using the lyrics of "Tainted Love" as dialog (argh, yes, with all the repetitions!), and I think some Dylan songs. I even saw somwething - maybe even an SNL skit? - with Streisand's "Memories"...
 
pharpsied said:
Start with some shorts and allow the bands to use them for ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC credit if they are just starting out. If you are doing a feature, work out a deal with the bands. Plus, if you want the best and most direct results, a good entertainment lawyer is the way to go but it is expensive and the negotions can get long... trust me!
Click to expand...

I found a German composer on the internet for my music video, and I used a local composer in New Zealand for my documentary. He worked out of his bedroom pretty much, but it was the most amazing score. It's so cool to work with young independant musicians, and I hope to continue to do so.

What do you mean allow bands to use them for ASCAP, BMI and SESAC credit?

Also, if you are a musician, at what stage do you need an entertainment lawyer? They are basically just there to help interpret wordy looking contracts that you don't understand, aren't they? I could be wrong. Although often when I hear of entertainment lawyers, usually they are brought in when toys are thrown or there is some dispute between the artist and filmmaker. What's your experience with entertainment lawyers been? They are kind of an anomaly to me, in terms of what they are actually do.
 
NDurk said:
I've actually thought about doing that before, but the copyright thing is what I always thought about. It's a great idea and if you ever get it into production let us know. I would love to see how it works out.
Click to expand...

If I have time this year, which I probably won't (or next year!) I might put the question to APRA in NZ. It would be really cool to use the lyrics of Station to Station in a short film, so maybe it's worth asking. All they can say is no.
 
rc444 said:
1. What do you mean allow bands to use them for ASCAP, BMI and SESAC credit?

2. Also, if you are a musician, at what stage do you need an entertainment lawyer?

3. What's your experience with entertainment lawyers been? They are kind of an anomaly to me, in terms of what they are actually do.
Click to expand...


Ok...

First, in order to become a member of the songwriting/licensing organizations you have to have a song that has either been publicly performed in a traceable venue, or used in a work that could be tracked by the organization. If the band's music is part of a soundtrack, they could use the experience not only for resume boosters and press kits, but also to gain entry into the organizations- but the caveat is that this is good for brand new bands and the experience level might match their musicianship...

Second, you need an entertainment lawyer as soon as you are serious about getting out there. Your entertainment lawyer is important only when your intellectual property is ready for wide distribution. You don't need them if you have an idea for something, but when you start telling people about it, or putting it down on paper, you need to have copyrights, or trademarks, or some type of protection and that's where they come in.

Lastly, I have had positive experiences with them since I only go to them when I need them. Also, certain industries only talk with themselves, and we all know that lawyers run the music industry, therefore it behooves you to have a lawyer so he can get you in and you can do the leg work from there. I don't know how many times I have seen conversations die and twitch after the dreaded question- "do you have representation?" Lawyers have even become more important than managers and A&R because ultimately they make the contract decisions and are the proprietary public and legal faces of the company. They litigate, negotiate, and can actually present and influence.

Just my experience, others may be different, but it helps to read books on the legal stuff and come to the table with something; people respect when you have taken the time to learn a little bit about what they do, but still let them do their jobs uninterrupted. It keeps them from having to explain everything to you, but the things they do have to explain seem a little less futile because you already have shown you can understand...
 
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