Diffused light film noir?

Rogue Crew

Rogue Crew

Well-known member
In an earlier post, I mentioned that I found a great deal on a barely used LTM Full Spectrum Pepper Kit from a small production house on the Left Coast and so I got them and I absolutely love them and I've been playing with them, setting up and lighting "scenes" in my apartment.

A few nights ago I watched The Third Man on Turner Classics and was for the Nth time, wowed by the look of the whole thing - it's gotta be the noiriest of all film noir. So I set about trying to see if I could light for noir. I did pretty good, but when I got to the point where I needed to introduce soft light (remember "video loves soft light"?), I couldn't do it. I couldn't get the razor edge between light and shadow. There was certainly no way I could do it using a softbox - light everywhere - so I used some small frames. I had a 12x12 with Tough Spun about 18" in front of the 100W Pepper and a 24x24 with a layer of Tough Frost and a layer of 1/4 Grid Cloth about 24" in front of a 300W Pepper. The barndoors are pretty effective and I held up some card in a couple of locations just to see if a cutter would help. It did, but once I tried to diffuse the light, the whole thing just didn't seem right.

Is diffused light film noir possible?
 
Re: Diffused light film noir?

I don't know, but to me the genre is as much about the harsh shadow/light juxtaposition as anything else. Diffused light seems to be the antithesis of that. But there are other factors. I say keep trying.

I never liked the lighting in the Third Man in the Noir sense. It seems almost overexposed at times to me, too bright. I'm more of a Big Sleep fan. Although I do love the off kilter camera angles int TTM.
 
Re: Diffused light film noir?

Attractive female characters get the soft light treatment in Noir films - a lot of that is lens diffusion too, though. Applying a softening effect in post, or (even better) shooting with a diffusion filter in front of the lens will give you the glowing highlights and overall softer image.

As for the light, diffuse, diffuse, diffuse! I shot a film recently where noir style lighting was used, and for the female characters, besides lens diffusion, we made sure to use a lot of bounce on them to fill the shadows, and put diffusion paper in front of our sources. A back light is always good to have to separate them from the background, and it's really necessary if you're diffusing the image itself - you definitely want to see the rim around the heroine!
 
Re: Diffused light film noir?

[quote author=Mike_Donis link=board=lighting;num=1097885191;start=0#2 date=10/16/04 at 00:07:49]Attractive female characters get the soft light treatment in Noir films - a lot of that is lens diffusion too, though. Applying a softening effect in post, or (even better) shooting with a diffusion filter in front of the lens will give you the glowing highlights and overall softer image.

As for the light, diffuse, diffuse, diffuse! I shot a film recently where noir style lighting was used, and for the female characters, besides lens diffusion, we made sure to use a lot of bounce on them to fill the shadows, and put diffusion paper in front of our sources. A back light is always good to have to separate them from the background, and it's really necessary if you're diffusing the image itself - you definitely want to see the rim around the heroine![/quote]

Thanks, Mike. I realized as I read your post that I didn't explain properly. I did the setup at night. Used 2 Peppers only, all house lights off, window blinds slightly open threw cool diagonal bars on back wall (back light). Picture looking very promising, my brother as stand-in looking embarrassed. Nice contrasty picture - dense shadows. Add diffusion to both fresnels and shadows lose sharp edge and density.
 
Re: Diffused light film noir?

Were you trying to diffuse the light because "video likes soft light," or was it because it wasn't giving you the right look?
If it looked good, I'd have just left it as it was :)

Can you post some stills of before and after the diffusion was added?


Also, a thought - maybe crushing some blacks in post would give you the shadow dropoff that you want, while keeping the light softer...
 
Re: Diffused light film noir?

[quote author=Mike_Donis link=board=lighting;num=1097885191;start=0#4 date=10/16/04 at 11:39:14]Were you trying to diffuse the light because "video likes soft light,"....?[/quote]

Yep, that's exactly right. I've been told this over and over and was trying to follow what I'd been told.
 
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