Difference between a Beta and a DV shoot
- Thread starter ksduded
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Cheesesailor77
Veteran
nope
Jason Adams
Section Moderator
Only difference is it will cost you more money.
HorseFilms
Look ma no hands
Carrying a heavier camera and being frustrated that you're not shooting 24p.
In ideal lighting situations, the footage of the DVX is the same as a Betacam. We've fooled lots of colleagues at TV stations into thinking stuff was shot on Betacam that was shot with the DVX.
Green/bluescreen, now that's a different story. We're working on a sequence with 24p DVX greenscreen. We are getting some excellent results, but then there is a lot of chroma smoothing, masking and we have a lot of people with an animation background airbrushing (myself included) used to manipulating stuff frame by frame. Also the matte paintings are using a carefully selected colour palette to emphasize blending. So it's not really that fair of a comparison.
Still, in general DVX and Betacam yield similar results. For steady handheld we'd rather Betacam as the cameras are bigger and are generally steadier.
Green/bluescreen, now that's a different story. We're working on a sequence with 24p DVX greenscreen. We are getting some excellent results, but then there is a lot of chroma smoothing, masking and we have a lot of people with an animation background airbrushing (myself included) used to manipulating stuff frame by frame. Also the matte paintings are using a carefully selected colour palette to emphasize blending. So it's not really that fair of a comparison.
Still, in general DVX and Betacam yield similar results. For steady handheld we'd rather Betacam as the cameras are bigger and are generally steadier.
NeverColdCall
Well-known member
I give you a lot of credit skycron - with chroma key stuff I just gave up on DV and blew a bunch of cash on the HVX to take the easy way out.
ColdCall, thanks! 
If you're (or anybody, for that matter) is interested, we can always post the results here when finished. One of them is for our studio's demo overhaul, which we'll be putting on our website anyway. It'll probably be all finished by about March.
I don't blame you for going the HVX route. We're just stubborn! Also it's good for us to do it, so if clients insist, it proves we can do it. So it's worth it just to see if it can be done.
If you're (or anybody, for that matter) is interested, we can always post the results here when finished. One of them is for our studio's demo overhaul, which we'll be putting on our website anyway. It'll probably be all finished by about March.
I don't blame you for going the HVX route. We're just stubborn! Also it's good for us to do it, so if clients insist, it proves we can do it. So it's worth it just to see if it can be done.
TedRR
Well-known member
Cory, I'm not trying to dispute you, but for the average person reading this, I want to give a different perspective.
I think it's a stretch to say the footage is comparable. I would hate to have people going around saying this without your knowledge of painting video. They could embarrass themselves.
I don't think the average person could accomplish what you do which is credit to your talents.
Great lighting will help a lot no doubt. But the DVX isn't in the same league as Beta.
With that said, I agree a good video tech can make decent video look great and I’m glad you can make it happen.
The above is merely my opinion. :happy:
I think it's a stretch to say the footage is comparable. I would hate to have people going around saying this without your knowledge of painting video. They could embarrass themselves.
I don't think the average person could accomplish what you do which is credit to your talents.
Great lighting will help a lot no doubt. But the DVX isn't in the same league as Beta.
With that said, I agree a good video tech can make decent video look great and I’m glad you can make it happen.
The above is merely my opinion. :happy:
That's fair. We did have to do a lot of roto/masking, and most of our artists (myself included) have a background in visual effects. So it's not really pulling a straight key. A one minute segment of greenscreen has taken over a month to roto to get it to that point with 3 guys.
A lot of post work is required to make it anything close to servicable. The only reason we're dealing with the DVX in this case is really the 24pA. Otherwise we'd simply say screw it and go Beta. In most cases, it isn't really worth it. (Pretty much all cases.)
It is possible to pull a professional key with lots of roto and skilled people with a background in effects -- but then, technically speaking, it's not pulling a key -- the key is a "rough sketch".
I'll post a reel here when I have the time, probably end of March when things settle down here a bit, as these are fairly strong claims here I've made, which as of yet, are unsubstantiated as the proof is in the pudding.
I should also clarify what I meant by comparable - I didn't mean that the greenscreen capabilities had a comparable image. I was referring to standard ENG run and gun style shooting and playing the two side by side. The DVX requires a bit more love (light) than the Betacam but will yield similar quality picture if under optimal conditions.
A lot of post work is required to make it anything close to servicable. The only reason we're dealing with the DVX in this case is really the 24pA. Otherwise we'd simply say screw it and go Beta. In most cases, it isn't really worth it. (Pretty much all cases.)
It is possible to pull a professional key with lots of roto and skilled people with a background in effects -- but then, technically speaking, it's not pulling a key -- the key is a "rough sketch".
I'll post a reel here when I have the time, probably end of March when things settle down here a bit, as these are fairly strong claims here I've made, which as of yet, are unsubstantiated as the proof is in the pudding.
I should also clarify what I meant by comparable - I didn't mean that the greenscreen capabilities had a comparable image. I was referring to standard ENG run and gun style shooting and playing the two side by side. The DVX requires a bit more love (light) than the Betacam but will yield similar quality picture if under optimal conditions.
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Here's a stupid test scene we shot with the DVX100. This is before it is rotoed. There's some green spill because the subject is close to the wall. Other than that it's not a bad key. That orange stuff at the bottom, for some reason FCP4 does this to all my output if we use Sorenson. The rather out of control gentleman is actually our DP. 
http://www.skycron.com/test_green.mov
http://www.skycron.com/test_green.mov
DV vs Beta, same but different
DV vs Beta, same but different
The Beta vs DV discussion is best made when not considering cameras. The raw recording formats need to be reviewed. There is a very good (albeit old) comparison of the DV and Beta formats here: http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-Beta.html
In practice, well-lit and composed video, shot with the same camera, will look quite similar in both formats, with DV breaking down in hard bright diagonals and red edge smear. Those limitations, which betray the the lack of color information in the standard DV format, are what make DV less than acceptable for ambitious chroma key work and fine detail graphics.
The workarounds are many: a more advanced keying program like DV Matte Pro, better filtering in edit programs like FCP, or, the one I like, shooting DV for normal scene work, but mastering graphics and keys in an uncompressed format.
If 24 frames is the goal, the extra frames can be pulled out in a reverse pulldown. So, DV for all the action shooting, Beta for the key shoots, and Uncompressed 8-or-10 bit for final mastering.
DV vs Beta, same but different
The Beta vs DV discussion is best made when not considering cameras. The raw recording formats need to be reviewed. There is a very good (albeit old) comparison of the DV and Beta formats here: http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-Beta.html
In practice, well-lit and composed video, shot with the same camera, will look quite similar in both formats, with DV breaking down in hard bright diagonals and red edge smear. Those limitations, which betray the the lack of color information in the standard DV format, are what make DV less than acceptable for ambitious chroma key work and fine detail graphics.
The workarounds are many: a more advanced keying program like DV Matte Pro, better filtering in edit programs like FCP, or, the one I like, shooting DV for normal scene work, but mastering graphics and keys in an uncompressed format.
If 24 frames is the goal, the extra frames can be pulled out in a reverse pulldown. So, DV for all the action shooting, Beta for the key shoots, and Uncompressed 8-or-10 bit for final mastering.