did I buy a lousy mic?

B

ballyhoo42

Active member
I bought my DVX100a from b&h and just took the recommendation of the sales person for the choice of mic. I wouldn't do that again. Anyway, do I have a bad mic? I bought a panasonic unidirectional mic - its a AGMC100G.
I'm such a newbie I can't really tell.
I'm hedging about spending $300 for a better mic - how much difference is it going to make?
What kind of differences in the sound does a better mic make possible?
Thanks
 
Take a listen for yourself...

http://www.dvfreelancer.com/articles/shotgun_shootout.html

The comparison between the me66 and the MKH60 will give you a good idea how much difference a good mic can make.

If you can't return it (B&H has like a 5 day return policy) you can use it to learn how to get better sound while you save up some dough for a quality mic ($500 minimum for a decent mic).

Best
 
Thanks wabbit. I'm having trouble differentiating the me66 and the MKH60 as it posts one mic on the right channel and one on the left, and I don't have headphones. Yet another hardware need.
Can you suggest a thread about how to get the best sound out of your (cheap) mike?

On other threads I've read that the Oktava hyper 165 is good for interior dialog - its inexpensive, I could afford it - I don't even know what a hyper is.
On another note - Have you found much of a video/DVX community in Seattle?
 
Ballyhoo...

Do a quick search and look for Matt's 'Everything I know about Audio' thread (or just click this handy yet convenient link: http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=21535)

There are a lot of things that Matt explains, yet does it in terms that a neophyte can understand. It is very clear and easy to understand. There is also a sticky thread that breaks down a bunch of different mics.

Another great solution is to watch some of the zombie movies and then PM the people who made them and ask them how they got their sound.

Finally, search posts by Ty Ford & Oleg. They have a ton of great advice.
 
BTW: Without knowing what type of films you are shooting, what locations you are shooting in, and what budget you are working with no one here can let you know if the mic you bought is good or bad for your needs.
 
thanks THEYANKEE..
OK, I'm doing two short (5 minutes each) art films which will in a group show in a cooperative contemporary art gallery in 5 weeks... no time like the present to learn how to do all this stuff!
The first short film is indoors, shooting one person telling a very bizarre story ... so I can put the mike on a mike stand near the person. I might film in my basement which is very quiet.
The second short film is going to be a sequence of very short (5 second) clips of many people making a particular sound...
I'm not sure whether I'll do it indoors or out. My original thought was to do it indoors with a standardized background... but I can get a more interesting mix of people if I shoot it outdoors at a local park... in which case I guess I cannot control the ambient sounds of cars, planes, etc. I could set up a mic stand.
Other than these two projects I tend to do real run and gun documentary type stuff of young folks, primarily indoors but not always. But these projects are not as immediate as the one for the gallery exhibition.
Thanks for the link to the thread and the names to search posts for.
 
PS... I don't have a lot of money to spend on audio cause the DVX and the computer have hit the bank account pretty hard.
 
I'd try it as is right now. If you are outdoors and it gets real windy, maybe, but it should perform well overall in normal conditions. I always say try something first before you buy extras. Many times you find the extras are called that because you don't need them,
 
Walter is right, always try to make do with what you have first. The goal is going to be to get the mic as close to the people talking as possible. If you find that you are not getting the caliber of sound you want then I would recommend picking up either a lav mic or a hyper cardiod. Renting is a great solution (should set you back about $50 for a weekend).

Run some tests with what you have already and see where that takes you.
 
Hey ballyhoo,

Didn't notice your local there. It's not a DVX community per sey but if you haven't been down to 911 Media Arts, you must!!!

http://www.911media.org

They even got an intro to audio course (as well as editing, lighting, camera work, etc) and the best rental prices on audio equipment you will find in town (although it is pretty middle of the road stuff). it's located right downtown and has a great staff.

They are really worth checking out, an invaluable resource, especially if you are just getting started.

For your project if the subject can just speak directly into a handheld mic that would probably be your best/cheapest bet.

Let me know when/where your gallery exhibition is, if I can I will check it out.

Best
 
dont forget: get the mic AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN to the actor. a basement can be silent but reverberating. you can even cover hard flat surfaces (which create reverb) with blankets.

dont worry, your mic will be ok. Technology doesn't make good artworks. skills and experience is what makes you stand out.

Andrea
 
Hey thanks everyone. Both the support and the info are really appreciated.
Since I don't want the mike in the video, I think we either need to get a mike stand with an arm or hang the mike from the ceiling. Since it's a unidirectional mike, does it matter if the mike is off to the side of the actor's mouth, or above his head? Are we talking about having the mike one or two feet away from the actor's mouth?
Thanks wabbit for the link to 911 media arts. I think I'll take a class or two there.
Thanks THEYankee about the rental idea.
If all goes as planned our video will be in a group exhibition entitled "Crime Scene" at Soil Gallery in November.
 
ballyhoo42 said:
Are we talking about having the mike one or two feet away from the actor's mouth?
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be ideal. the closer the better (obviously adjust volumes on camera accordingly so you get 2-3 red dots on the peaks). use input2 and get the same signal from both channels. keep one volume slightly lower for clipping recovery. and do tests.
In tests, if you dont have proper headphones which prevent ext noise to get into your ears, you will have to record and judge from playback (since there's a non sync between live and processed sound when you listen live). possibly from the RCA outputs on the side which are way better than the headphones monitor output.

always point the mic to the mouth. from the top it's ok (or bottom! you can hide it somewhere on the table [covering hard flat surfaces to avoid reverb]if there's any). just try to be slightly in front of him, on the top.

Andrea
 
Thanks Andrea
After reading your post I went ahead and ordered some headphones - sennheiser HD-202 from evs online.
About setting the volumes - so I set one volume so I get 2-3 red dots on the peaks and the second volume slightly lower....does 1 red dot on the peaks sound about right?

Since I have still to learn how to edit I don't know what clipping recovery means, but I guess I'll figure that out when I come to it. I don't know what "doing tests" involves, unless it just means listening to it after capturing to my computer.
Thanks, I appreciate your help.
 
Hi ballyhoo, I am glad you chose the HD202 over the PX40 :thumbsup:

That sounds like a good setting. You will not clip your audio footage until you kit the red bar at the end of the 5 red dots. Everything before that is acceptable. In fact the closer you are to the red bar without hitting it, the richer the audio sounds. That is the benefit of going "one high - one low" on the audio gain controls.

Playing back the footage will be more clear, becuase listening live has a delay in 24p, and also sounds coming into your ears through headphones are mixed with live sounds.

You will not have clipping unless you hit the red bar. That means you lost audio information and fidelity. It is the same as clipping the whites in your exposure. Digital, unlike the old analog, is unforgiving. You used to be able to retrieve analog audio in post, clipped up to 20% ! But digital is just gone, so be careful. If you cannot pay attention to the audio levels all the time, shoot lower on the gain level. Doing a test just means having your subject count from 1 to 10 at the normal voice, set input level 1, then have them count louder, and set level 2.

Good lucK! :)
 
ballyhoo42 said:
About setting the volumes - so I set one volume so I get 2-3 red dots on the peaks and the second volume slightly lower....does 1 red dot on the peaks sound about right?
Click to expand...
what rush said is right. never hit the red vertical bar. if you do, you're clipping the signal. occasionally this might happen. in that case, for that part of footage / scene / statement, you will just switch to channel 2 (which you got at lower volume) in the timeline when editing. I referred to this as clipping recovery.
when you test your volume, make sure the actor is performing at the same volume he will use when recording. and test his peaks.

ballyhoo42 said:
I don't know what "doing tests" involves, unless it just means listening to it after capturing to my computer.
Click to expand...
Doing tests means listen to the audio you're getting. it's better to record and listen to it since sometimes it's hard to isolate your ears from ext sound. try to get to best mic position (and overall setting) to miimize reverb (unless you want reverb), background noise, and get the voice sound right.

Andrea
 
Thanks Rush and Andrea for your clarifications. Rush, when you say "set input level 1" you mean the volume dial on channel 1, right?
If I understand it correctly, the thing to do is to capture a short clip of the scene/subject on to the computer and listens to how it sounds played back before proceeding with shooting the whole scene.
This definitely is an argument for buying the laptop - I guess I could capture and listen to it played back on the laptop in order to check the audio on location. I was going to buy a powerbook so I imagine the speakers are good enough. I've got a great pair of harman/kardon speakers hooked up to my desktop.
 
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