Deposits

[Eric Coughlin]

Who does deposits to book jobs and how do you go about it?

I almost always ask for a half deposit to book the date for a freelance DP job. About 80% of the time the client is fine with it, expects it, has done it before, etc. Perhaps 10% of the time it's not typical for them, but they'll still do it. And then there's the 10% who go with this, "I've never heard of that before. We always pay net 30 (or 60)."

Which surprises me that half deposits are so common in the industry, yet a good amount of clients claim they haven't even heard of that before. I know in the reality TV world it seems less common, but I've come across this with corporate and doc clients as well.

Now, sometimes the clients are big companies with lots of red tape. I did a shoot for QVC not too long ago and they weren't able to do a half deposit, but since they were big, I was willing to make an exception. Sometimes I'll just feel out the client, how confirmed the job is, how soon it is, etc., and decide if it's worth taking the risk to not get a deposit. And other times I'll insist or turn down the job if there's no deposit (such as with a foreign client a couple months ago).

I just lost a client today because I asked for a deposit, they said that's unusual for them, asked why I needed it, I explained (1. To reserve the date so I don't turn down other work and lose money if their shoot cancels, 2. Rental houses always charge up front for rentals and I am essentially a DP with equipment for rent, 3. To make sure the client actually pays as those who can't do half deposits are less likely to ever pay), and then they decided to book someone else. This was a well paying job and I doubt they would have not paid, but it becomes a matter of is it worth taking the risk.

What is your procedure with dealing with deposits with clients, when do you make exceptions, and how often do you lose jobs because you asked for a deposit?

 

[R_Marvin]

Over the years having done wedding photography, I've discovered along with others, don't ask for a deposit but rather ask for a retainer. I'm no legal expert so don't take this as gospel but I've known a few photographers whose clients cancelled and wanted their money returned. Some argue that in legal terms a deposit is refundable but a retainer is not because your services are being retained for a particular date. The photographers have usually prevailed in cases where it was a retainer, if the date is canceled the funds are not returned because it would be a loss of income, keep in mind in terms of weddings that you typically have only 52 Saturdays per year or in other words 52 dates that you can work since most weddings occur then. (Although they could occur during the week, Saturday is the usually day.)

For weddings most photographers will want everything up front because couples usually have no money left to pay them after the wedding. Some will ask for 50% up front and the remaining 50% due on the day of the wedding. Finally some will do thirds, 1/3 at time of booking, 1/3 day of the wedding, 1/3 when the album and photos are delivered.

Should the client cancel you've lost income. Your point "1. To reserve the date so I don't turn down other work and lose money if their shoot cancels" is one of the best arguments for a retainer. The argument goes that you could have sold the day to someone else but since your services were retained you reserved that date exclusively for the client. If the client cancels your business is hurt because you've lost income. How relevant this is with video production may not be easily determined as you have more than 52 days to sell your service, unless of course all you're doing is weddings.

I'd recommend reaching out to some wedding photographers, perhaps friends in the business, and review their contracts and seek their advice how they handle the retainer vs. deposit issue. And it depends on you and the prospect looking to hire you. As you've mentioned, a larger business most likely has the funds to pay you if you're not seeking any funds up front. Make sure in such case that you're dealing with a decision maker within such company who is authorized to spend the funds and have a rock-solid contract signed.

I hope this helps and gives you some ideas to consider.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

I don't really do weddings anymore.

I don't believe in contracts for how I work. Last time I sent a client a contract was perhaps 3-5 years ago and haven't had any issues in that time that a contract would have solved. Have some e-mails which clearly spell out what is being provided just to avoid any confusion and disagreements. At the end of the day, if the client decides not to pay, it's unlikely I'd make the time and effort to actually sue them, and if I did, e-mails are legally enforceable like contracts. That said, I'm speaking mainly as a freelance DP. When I used to do weddings or more company jobs I'd do a contract, because the clients often had no knowledge of how the video business works, could have wildly varying expectations, etc. Most of my clients these days are producers, agencies, and video companies, and they typically know the business well enough that I don't feel the benefits of doing contracts would outweigh the time (money) lost by dealing with contracts.

The half deposit works both ways in that you show up because you know you're getting paid at least half, and from the client perspective if the videographer does a terrible job they've only paid half.

Retainer vs. deposit is mostly semantics. I always word it as, "The deposit is to book the date." Perhaps retainer is better from a legal standpoint, but I feel like deposit is a more commonly used term, and at the end of the day the chances of a client making the time and effort to go to court over getting a deposit refund, and winning purly on the grounds of not having used the term "retainer," is less likely to happen than dealing with the headache of explaining to each client what a retainer is.

...on second thought, maybe retainer is a better term. Pretty straightforward. Retain the date. Reservation. Hmm...

 

[rob norton]

I think mainly if you're paying other crew members it's good to get money upfront. Your reputation is on the line for being someone who pays on time.

Eric, what's your cancellation policy?

 

[Bassman2003]

Deposit/retainer >= Contract.

In today's world where media is being seen more as a commodity, people seem less trustworthy in some respects. I have always thought at the one man band level that contracts are useless. They have little to no teeth and people will disregard if it is in their best interest. Money is the only thing that matters with a shakey client. Good clients do not need contracts. So I frame the contract in more of an agreed list of services rather than a binding agreement. Because some people get their hackles up when you introduce the contract. Like you do not trust them. And in some cases this is warranted.

So I think you should stick with the 1/2 up front. Just like never delivering digital assets until final payment. These are base level protections that should never be violated unless you are sure of a positive outcome. Maybe we should brainstorm and find a new way to title this behavior. Reserving the date is a good start but I do not like the word retainer as it implies legal or you sitting around getting paid without working! Both are not positive. Maybe booking fee? Pre-production fee?

 

[filmguy123]

Deposit booking fee and retainer are wildly different in legal terms. They’re going to mean the same thing to most people but if in writing I recommend using booking fee. In person when you talk you can get call it deposit all you want.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

I think mainly if you're paying other crew members it's good to get money upfront. Your reputation is on the line for being someone who pays on time.

Eric, what's your cancellation policy?

I don't typically spell it out, but it's essentially I can keep the half deposit if the shoot cancels or is moved. Now, I would offer leniency depending on the situation. If they're just booking me and I didn't have to turn down any gigs, and they have a change of date, I wouldn't necessarily keep the deposit. When crew are involved, it becomes more difficult. I did have a recent client change the date when I had a few people booked on crew, so I reached out to the crew, asked if they were all okay with the date change, made sure nobody was loosing work by doing so, and since all were good I didn't end up charging the client for the date change. I don't think I've ever had to enforce the cancellation policy, which is nice.

I did once have a client reach out to me about a shoot, before I was even doing deposits, said he wanted to book me, I told him I had a lower paid shoot (a wedding) that was already booked that day, but I could get out of it if his shoot was confirmed. He said his was confirmed, so I got someone to cover the wedding for me, and just after I'd gotten it covered, he informed me that his shoot had gotten cancelled. So, I explained I just backed out of the job because he'd said I should in order to do his shoot, and wow, he sent me the amount of money that the wedding would have paid. I didn't even have a deposit or cancellation agreement in place and he just sent the money. Funny thing is, we only exchanged a few e-mails and had never even spoken on the phone. Great client.


I agree about crew. I'm going to pay my crew whether my client pays me or not, but I don't want to take the risk that I could lose a lot of money if the client never pays me a dime because I didn't get a half deposit. I almost always pay my crew the day of or within a few days of the shoot (whenever I get a chance to sit down with Paypal and get everyone paid). I get half up front, which pays for the crew, and then the second half that often comes around 30 days later is my profit. I typically have enough rainy day funds to do this and the crew who work for me are always happier to get paid fast, so what have I got to lose by paying them sooner rather than later. I really don't get the mentality of waiting for full payment from a client before paying your crew. If you're going to pay them regardless of whether your client pays you or not, and you have the money in your bank to pay them now, then why wait if you can make everyone happier by paying them much quicker. Treat your crew well and you'll have an endless supply of quality people who are happy to work for you.

But yeah, for one-man-band stuff, I'm more willing to risk not having a deposit, cause worst case scenario I don't get paid and they've just wasted my time, but hopefully I haven't lost money assuming I didn't turn down other work to take on a job that didn't have a deposit.

 

[chris f]

If I'm producing the project direct to client I require half of the budget before the first shooting day so I can at least guarantee that my crew and vendors get paid and I can pay for the gear rentals. However, if I'm just being hired to be a crew member (DP, 2nd Cinematographer, etc.) I never require a deposit and just invoice them Net-30. (I've had one producer in the past 10 years that flaked out and didn't pay me for 2 days of filming and I'm planning on it happening again at some point down the road, because hey, that's life, but if it's only once every 10 years I can live with that.)

As a producer, if a crew member required a deposit up front I'm 99% I wouldn't choose to work with them. At that stage I need crew members who are going to make my life easier not add to my list of things to worry about leading up to the shoot. (and it would make me think this person is going to be a hassle OR this must be a wedding dude that doesn't crew production jobs often)