Dedolight DLED10

[rob norton]

I'm still not convinced these lights exist (I can't find a single video) but pricing is now available for the bi-colour and daylight versions - $4,750 USD for the bi-colour!:

- https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/collections/dled10-turbo-collection

- https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547821-REG/dedolight_setdled10_d_300w_focusing_led_daylight.html
- https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547819-REG/dedolight_dled10_d_300w_focusing_led_daylight.html
- https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547820-REG/dedolight_setdled10_bi_220w_focusing_led_bi_color.html
- https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547818-REG/dedolight_dled10_bi_220w_focusing_led_bi_color.html

^^^these are just variations of the same product page but stacked neatly to increase chances of upvotes.

I'm sure you could throw these lights down a set of stairs and they'd be fine, plus the fine control and range of accessories at least make them worth consideration as a longer term investment.

 

[Grug]

This looks like the 3rd design revision of these that I've seen. The photometrics seem to put the bi-colour output on par with a 650w tungsten fresnel in daylight mode, and about 20% less in tungsten mode. And the 300w daylight-only version is about halfway between a 650w tungsten fresnel and a 1000w tungsten fresnel.

4-50° spot-to-flood range, with a 44-75° spread using the wide angle adapter.

With such a wide flood-spot range, bi-color and dimming these could be very useful lights.

I'm a little torn though on whether or not I'd find these more useful than the COB lights that other people are bringing out.

I still REALLY want the 1200w Dedo HMI.

 

[rob norton]

The dedo 1200 HMI would be really versatile - easily filling frames like the arri-m series but also having an attractive bare beam.

Is this why you really want one?

 

[Joshua Cadmium]

Grug, do you mean the $3000 USD 1200w HMI or the $20,000 one?

 

[morgan_moore]

worth consideration as a longer term investment.

Is there such a thing? Tech is changing so fast and these COBs 150w then 300, 500, 600 coming soon.

I cant see a client buying a daily fee on these lights that represents the purchase price.

==

BTW I have a Dled4 and it is a handy thing with a bit of punch for the size if focussed.

 

[rob norton]

Is there such a thing? Tech is changing so fast and these COBs 150w then 300, 500, 600 coming soon.

I cant see a client buying a daily fee on these lights that represents the purchase price.

==

BTW I have a Dled4 and it is a handy thing with a bit of punch for the size if focussed.

The fee would most likely be buried in a larger lighting package rather than presented to the client to decide if the individual tool is appropriate. Having said that if you can demonstrate the value as a rental item that does what the competition can’t then I’m sure there’s room to get them over the line individually. The problem for dedo is that price is becoming more important than quality, control, projection attachments etc.

Re longer term, what’s long term is up to the person buying but I’d still rather eat a more expensive one off purchase that will last for years than go with a cheaper but half baked product that gets updated every 18 months.

PS I also think the lights are too expensive!

 

[Grug]

The dedo 1200 HMI would be really versatile - easily filling frames like the arri-m series but also having an attractive bare beam.

Is this why you really want one?

For me, it's really all about output and control. Those are the two aspects that give me control over how I'm lighting a set - and a 1200w HMI with the optical precision of a Dedo provides both of those things.

It just allows me to solve more problems with a single fixture, than I could otherwise.

Grug, do you mean the $3000 USD 1200w HMI or the $20,000 one?

Not the beam projector (though I would love to try one out). It's the DLH1200D, which is $13,000 USD for the full set. The head is only $3200 USD, so I think I might actually investigate whether I could get a more conventional 1200w ballast converted to run it (at a fraction of the price). The Dedo ballast does offer dimming which is supposed to work okay, but frankly, I've never seen a dimmed HMI bulb that didn't skew it's colours horrifically. So if something simpler can halve the cost. That would make the light much more accessible.

The problem for dedo is that price is becoming more important than quality, control, projection attachments etc.

I'm not actually sure that's true. Producers keep paying top dollar for Skypanels, Arrimaxes and Asteras at DP's requests (even when they're not necessarily the best tool for the job). I keep hearing gaffers complain about that - lugging S60s around (and even booming them overhead on truss) just to run them at 5% intensity.

 

[rob norton]

I'm not actually sure that's true. Producers keep paying top dollar for Skypanels, Arrimaxes and Asteras at DP's requests (even when they're not necessarily the best tool for the job). I keep hearing gaffers complain about that - lugging S60s around (and even booming them overhead on truss) just to run them at 5% intensity.

Hah good points! To rephrase a little, dedo still needs enough of these lights in circulation before they achieve the status of being a trendy lighting request.

The lights you referenced were still among the "first wave" of lights in their class where they brought something new to the table and have been milking the industry standard label ever since - good enough full featured RGB panel, high output lenseless PARnels and self-ballasted RGB tubes that actually look like a light bulb rather than a wand/lightsaber.

Maybe dedo has achieved a number of firsts with their DLEDxx series in the form of unmatched spot-flood ratios, superior beam control and ability to use projection attachments but these features may not be "enough" if most shoppers' criteria is more basic - e.g. "I need a bi-colour, hard light - aputure it is".

But I think my original statement is untrue anyway - dedo is probably perfectly happy manufacturing premium lighting products. However, unlike their huge popularity in the tungsten world, their HMIs and LEDs are a tiny fraction of what people are using in the field so perhaps at some point they'll tweak their model.

The worst is when it's a low budget shoot and the crew has already taken a hit on rates, only to find out a chunk of the budget went towards some obnoxious equipment hires (props for instagram!).

 

[rob norton]

Not the beam projector (though I would love to try one out). It's the DLH1200D, which is $13,000 USD for the full set. The head is only $3200 USD, so I think I might actually investigate whether I could get a more conventional 1200w ballast converted to run it (at a fraction of the price). The Dedo ballast does offer dimming which is supposed to work okay, but frankly, I've never seen a dimmed HMI bulb that didn't skew it's colours horrifically. So if something simpler can halve the cost. That would make the light much more accessible.

I just noticed the dedolight CA site prices are MASSIVELY cheaper than B&H? - https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/collections/the-dlh1200-collection/products/setdlh1200d-dlh1200-daylight-set?variant=31253624225892 - no case but includes barn doors and a lamp but more importantly - a $3,666 USD difference.

Even the DLED10 bi-colour is $1K cheaper and it seems like this pricing is across the board. Unless I'm missing something obvious?

 

[Grug]

I just noticed the dedolight CA site prices are MASSIVELY cheaper than B&H? - https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/collections/the-dlh1200-collection/products/setdlh1200d-dlh1200-daylight-set?variant=31253624225892 - no case but includes barn doors and a lamp but more importantly - a $3,666 USD difference.

Even the DLED10 bi-colour is $1K cheaper and it seems like this pricing is across the board. Unless I'm missing something obvious?

Good find! I suppose the question will be whether they're allowed to ship internationally, or if they have regional distributor limitations.

 

[Grug]

Check out these photometrics:



And the beam intensifier (which sounds incredible):

https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/products/dpba-1821-parallel-beam-intensifier-for-dlh1200-dlh1000

I wonder if the "478% more light" figure is comparing it to the spot or flood setting though (since it's used with the HMI set to flood)?

Edit: HOLY ****:

 

[Joshua Cadmium]

For me, it's really all about output and control. Those are the two aspects that give me control over how I'm lighting a set - and a 1200w HMI with the optical precision of a Dedo provides both of those things.

It just allows me to solve more problems with a single fixture, than I could otherwise.

For me, I think the beauty of Dedolights, besides the preciseness, is indeed the output. They are super efficient, especially with continuous sources like tungsten and HMI, which still offer a number of benefits over LED. You end up wasting so much light with inefficient, cost saving designs, like using fresnel lenses or faceted reflectors over precise optics, for instance.

Because of this, you can run all of their lights on house power, even that $20,000 behemoth. M18s infamously can't do that (at least in the U.S.)

For anything I am doing, I do not want to be running on a generator. Dedolights are expensive but you might end up saving costs on the back end because of that (plus the time savings of using less rigging, especially with their reflect system.) You might be able to get away with charging more for lighting if you explain that the efficiencies coming from the system you are using makes it so you can hire one less person to deal with electric (or some explanation like that - "I can do in x hours what would require 2x hours from anyone else".)

There's are some photometrics that compare their $20,000 1200w light to a 9000w Arri HMI. It's crazy.

Not the beam projector (though I would love to try one out). It's the DLH1200D, which is $13,000 USD for the full set. The head is only $3200 USD, so I think I might actually investigate whether I could get a more conventional 1200w ballast converted to run it (at a fraction of the price). The Dedo ballast does offer dimming which is supposed to work okay, but frankly, I've never seen a dimmed HMI bulb that didn't skew it's colours horrifically. So if something simpler can halve the cost. That would make the light much more accessible.

The DLH1200D is way less than that in EUR. The full pricelist is here: https://www.dedoweigertfilm.de/dwf-en/products/Price-Lists/dedolight-pl.php

It looks like the ballast comes in a normal and a highspeed version. The normal is 2,748 EUR or only about $3,200 USD. The highspeed is 2,905 EUR - $3,400.

Even the head is cheaper - its 2,104 EUR or about $2,500.

I'm not sure the best place to buy in Europe, but it looks like Videolinea.com is an online dealer in Italy. You could also try contacting Dedolight in Germany directly.

You may be able to get the whole kit for much cheaper that way. They even have a full kit version with the normal ballast, cables, and barndoors for 5,555 EUR or about $6,500 USD: https://www.videolinea.com/en/fresn...ght/dedolight-setdlh1200d-dlh1200d-light-head

 

[Joshua Cadmium]

I wonder if the "478% more light" figure is comparing it to the spot or flood setting though (since it's used with the HMI set to flood)?

Yes, you would multiply the flood setting by the 478%. The whole point of using the Parallel Beam attachment is that the flood position on all lights is the one that has the most amount of light total. In general (without the attachment) Dedolights with their optics are able to make the spot position much higher in intensity than using other systems, like a fresnel lens, which are very inefficient in spot position. However, even Dedolights are not as efficient in spot as they are in flood.

So these (very expensive) optics take all of that light in flood and funnel them into a very narrow beam that has much more light than they otherwise would have in the spot position.

One of the biggest benefits, is that when you combine that super intense spot with a reflector, you can increase the distance of the light beam (plus the light source appears to be actually behind the fixture) which means that the downsides of the inverse square law are mitigated - there is less fall off in the beam. Because of that, the light looks more natural. As people move within the light, the change in intensity doesn't doesn't make it appear that they are artificially lit.

Sunlight coming from a window, for instance, is parallel and the light isn't angling outward, which it would if a light was placed very near a window.

This video shows the benefit: https://youtu.be/s-qmmsTWfvI?t=198 (skipped the first part).

I really liked this video as well, which shows what you can do with just 600 watts of tungsten: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECauWnO1o8w .

This video also has a little more about reflected light and also has the chart (at 3:18) that shows that their $20k 1200w fixture is over a third more efficient as a M90 in spot position. That means per watt, it's over 10x as efficient as an M90 in spot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDbFTnXOJNQ .

 

[rob norton]

Yes, you would multiply the flood setting by the 478%. The whole point of using the Parallel Beam attachment is that the flood position on all lights is the one that has the most amount of light total. In general (without the attachment) Dedolights with their optics are able to make the spot position much higher in intensity than using other systems, like a fresnel lens, which are very inefficient in spot position. However, even Dedolights are not as efficient in spot as they are in flood.

So these (very expensive) optics take all of that light in flood and funnel them into a very narrow beam that has much more light than they otherwise would have in the spot position.

One of the biggest benefits, is that when you combine that super intense spot with a reflector, you can increase the distance of the light beam (plus the light source appears to be actually behind the fixture) which means that the downsides of the inverse square law are mitigated - there is less fall off in the beam. Because of that, the light looks more natural. As people move within the light, the change in intensity doesn't doesn't make it appear that they are artificially lit.

Sunlight coming from a window, for instance, is parallel and the light isn't angling outward, which it would if a light was placed very near a window.

This video shows the benefit: https://youtu.be/s-qmmsTWfvI?t=198 (skipped the first part).

I really liked this video as well, which shows what you can do with just 600 watts of tungsten: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECauWnO1o8w .

This video also has a little more about reflected light and also has the chart (at 3:18) that shows that their $20k 1200w fixture is over a third more efficient as a M90 in spot position. That means per watt, it's over 10x as efficient as an M90 in spot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDbFTnXOJNQ .

I know it's a comparison for reference but they're completely different tools - the m90's spot is 15 degrees vs. 2 degrees on the dedo. Just like the m90 would be completely inappropriate to use with the reflector system, the dedo would do a terrible job filling a 12' frame.

Plus the DPB70 weighs 49kg and takes up a lot of space, which should also be taken into consideration.

The lightstream reflectors look like they'd be great to have on hand, except I'm more interested in the naked beam from the DPB70 and DLH1200 with parallel beam intensifier!

I might need to grab one of the DLH4 beam intensifiers too. Also, I had no idea dedo made a 1000w tungsten head :love4:

 

[Joshua Cadmium]

I know it's a comparison for reference but they're completely different tools - the m90's spot is 15 degrees vs. 2 degrees on the dedo. Just like the m90 would be completely inappropriate to use with the reflector system, the dedo would do a terrible job filling a 12' frame.

Plus the DPB70 weighs 49kg and takes up a lot of space, which should also be taken into consideration.

You're totally right! I didn't look at the full photometrics, since I could only find them on the video. I didn't realize they were not being compared at the same degree, so it's absolutely an imperfect comparison. I found the exact photometrics here: https://www.dedoweigertfilm.de/dwf-...content/lightstream_photometrics_dlt_dbpa.php . They actually don't match what is on the video, so it ends up that the M90 is actually about twice as bright at 15 degrees than the DPB70 is at 2 degrees. That means the M40 is a better comparison.

The M90 is 40kg. However, with those updated photometrics, the DPB70 is about 33% brighter than a M40 at max spot (18 degrees). The M40 is only 20kg, so yes, the DPB70 is definitely bigger than a comparable fixture.

A better comparison would probably be a D40 at its max spot (6.5 degrees). It's still about the same brightness of beam as the M40, so the DPB70 is still about 33% brighter (but, again, at 2 degrees.) The D40 is also much smaller at about 18kg.

Also, I had no idea dedo made a 1000w tungsten head :love4:

One thing to keep in mind is that the 1000w tungsten fixture uses standard 120v G22 globes, not the low voltage bulbs other Dedolight units use. So the efficiencies you'll see will come solely from the optics and not the lamp.

For instance, Dedolight's 436 fixture (which is still one of their best tungsten units) uses 400w 36v bulbs and needs a ballast, but is almost the same brightness as Dedolight's 650w 120v fixture. It also spots down further than the 650w.

 

[rob norton]

You're totally right! I didn't look at the full photometrics, since I could only find them on the video. I didn't realize they were not being compared at the same degree, so it's absolutely an imperfect comparison. I found the exact photometrics here: https://www.dedoweigertfilm.de/dwf-...content/lightstream_photometrics_dlt_dbpa.php . They actually don't match what is on the video, so it ends up that the M90 is actually about twice as bright at 15 degrees than the DPB70 is at 2 degrees. That means the M40 is a better comparison.

The M90 is 40kg. However, with those updated photometrics, the DPB70 is about 33% brighter than a M40 at max spot (18 degrees). The M40 is only 20kg, so yes, the DPB70 is definitely bigger than a comparable fixture.

A better comparison would probably be a D40 at its max spot (6.5 degrees). It's still about the same brightness of beam as the M40, so the DPB70 is still about 33% brighter (but, again, at 2 degrees.) The D40 is also much smaller at about 18kg.



One thing to keep in mind is that the 1000w tungsten fixture uses standard 120v G22 globes, not the low voltage bulbs other Dedolight units use. So the efficiencies you'll see will come solely from the optics and not the lamp.

For instance, Dedolight's 436 fixture (which is still one of their best tungsten units) uses 400w 36v bulbs and needs a ballast, but is almost the same brightness as Dedolight's 650w 120v fixture. It also spots down further than the 650w.

Oh yeah, those numbers are very different!?

Either way, it'd be great to rent and try in a number of set ups (as well as a D40!).

That's great information on the tungsten lights, thanks.

 

[chris_f]

I am also quite curious about the DLED10 and haven’t ever found a review on that particular unit. I would also like to know the beam angle of the DLH1000t tungsten in order to compare brightness between those two lights. Does anyone have any experience with that or the DLHD1200D HMI that was mentioned?

I own a couple of the DLH436 and they pretty much give me everything I need for hard light applications. Really awesome tool when combined with the DP400 projector. It is also just awesome for replicating sunlight when used with the wide angle attachment. You tend to lose nearly a stop of output but the shadows become incredibly sharp, subject can be about 1m away from a background (with the light 2-3m from the subject) and shadows will maintain their sharpness.

The only thing that can make the DLH436 a little fiddly is the manually selected voltage on the ballast. If you get an unexpected voltage spike you can blow a bulb or if voltage drops the fuse can trip. I would love for them to re-release this light with a more modern ballast. It has some unique advantages and is surprisingly bright for a 400w tungsten.

I also wanted to point out that the photometrics of the parallel beam intensifier are actually being compared with the light output of the unit when set to the spot position. So when Dedo says ~500% brighter, that is 5x the lux value of the light set to spot. (But yes you put the light into full flood mode to make the beam intensifier to work properly).

 

[rob norton]

I would also like to know the beam angle of the DLH1000t tungsten in order to compare brightness between those two lights. Does anyone have any experience with that or the DLHD1200D HMI that was mentioned?

I also wanted to point out that the photometrics of the parallel beam intensifier are actually being compared with the light output of the unit when set to the spot position. So when Dedo says ~500% brighter, that is 5x the lux value of the light set to spot. (But yes you put the light into full flood mode to make the beam intensifier to work properly).

You would think we'd see beam intensifiers from aputure/nanguang etc. - but I guess the requirements for the lights they're used with are pretty strict so maybe they only currently make sense with dedo optics. Give it a few months..

 

[chris_f]

You would think we'd see beam intensifiers from aputure/nanguang etc. - but I guess the requirements for the lights they're used with are pretty strict so maybe they only currently make sense with dedo optics. Give it a few months..

Awesome, thanks for sharing that diagram of the DLH1000t, have never seen that before. It has the exact same flood beam angle as the DLH436. So at 3 metres DLH1000t is ~1600 Lux VS ~1000 lux for the DLH436. 2.5 times the Wattage but only 60% brighter. I’m glad they still make the DLH652t as that seems like the best bang for the buck of current tungsten Dedos… For the extra cost of the Bi-color version of the DLED10 you could basically buy the DLED 10 daylight only fixture and then pickup a real tungsten Dedo with the money you save.

Definitely, it’s only a matter of time before the other brands make a similar product to the beam intensifier. They may not need to for certain products though… the nanlite Forza 60 projection attachment is a good example. The 19 degree projector for that 60 watt light pumps out over 4000lux at 3m… so if they made a 5 degree lens it may achieve similar results to a beam intensifier but remain cuttable/ more controllable.

 

[rob norton]

Definitely, it’s only a matter of time before the other brands make a similar product to the beam intensifier. They may not need to for certain products though… the nanlite Forza 60 projection attachment is a good example. The 19 degree projector for that 60 watt light pumps out over 4000lux at 3m… so if they made a 5 degree lens it may achieve similar results to a beam intensifier but remain cuttable/ more controllable.

Good point, dedolight are doing a pretty good job prolonging the life of older products but I'm curious to see what happens to them as a company long term. As far as the larger "traditional lighting" companies, known for their tungsten/HMI (carbon arc!) products, Arri is surely leading the way in successfully bringing LED products to market. At the other end of the spectrum we have K5600, who seem to be kicking and screaming about the transition and I don't see a bright future for them right now. I used to dream about owning a joleko but now wouldn't even consider one (nor dream about owning lights anymore!). Dedolight is somewhere in the middle, along with Mole Richardson, Kino and a few others. We can only sit back and watch!