Deciding between short & long lenses?

F

filmguy123

Veteran
When shooting, what are some tips on when it is best to use a wider/short lens, VS a longer lens? For example, a fight scene. I know you could do it either way, but I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around what look I want and why...

Also, is it ok to mix between the two looks? Or does this look funny to shoot a bunch of shots at full wide, and then a bunch that are zoomed in more? Is it best to stick with a consistent style, or to mix and match?

Where in the scene is it ok to mix and match, if that is ok? Like stay short lens, but use long lens for CUs on the face? Or mix in long lens CUs of the fight with short lens?

Or does it not matter?

Sorry hope this is an OK question that makes sense!
 
The question does make sense, but I guess there is no clear answer to it.
It depends on what you want. I think there are basically no rules, but the common use of lenses would be.
- Wide lenses for establishing shot, Masters, moveing Master etc.
- Medium size lenses for over shoulders, wider close ups.
- long lenses, close ups

If you do a fight scene it might be better to use long lenses, because it would compress the image and make it more chaotic (like a fight)
But you could also use a static shot and a wide lens. This would seem more realistic (hopefully).

You've gotta know, what you want the Audience to feel.
Disorientated, Shocked.

If you don't want to draw to much attention to the camera work it's better if you don't cut from a wide lense to a short one. But you can mix them in the within the Movie, to undeline a certain thing.
 
why don't you generally use wide lenses for closer up shots? Because of distortion?

So the fight scene I have is a well choregraphed martial arts fight, where I want to show the moves and choreography. Should I favor wide angles? When might it be appropriate to mix in long lenses, say to add some frantic movement? Or would it look funny to jump from mostly wide lenses to longer lenses for a few shots?

(and - are longer lenses better for fight scenes where frantic energy is more important than the elegance of the moves? For example, Bourne movies are well choregraphed fights, but they seem to use long lens for the fights? This seems to be because while it's well choregraphed, its not slick, elegant moves that need to be showed off like in martial arts, but rather more "realistic" kinds of fighting? Or is this an inaccurate assessment?)
 
Yes, mainly because of distorion. The face looks a little weird.
But as I said, to achieve a special effect your after you might wanna use some short lenses. Barry Sonnenfeld often uses short lenses to film close ups, so thath the room behind the character seems bigger and more impressive.

If you have some elegant moves in the fight scene, i would also shoot it on wider lenses (like in The Matrix) because you wanna see the fight and no shaky camera. I would stay in the same range of focal lenghts. Mixing them might confuse the Audience.

You're absolutely right about the Bourne Ultimatum.
They try to make everything look chaotic, and therefore long lenses come in handy. It's supposed to look raw and real.
Tony Scott is also a long lens guy.
 
Cool, thanks.

When you say not to mix long/short for the fight, do you mean don't mix for the action shots? Are *ANY* shots?

I am guessing when you have face close-ups, or perhaps a close-up of a hand grabbing something, than you might opt for the long lens to avoid distortion?

But you are just saying, don't use long-short-long-long-short-long-short-short-short-long-short-short-long-long-long-short-long-long-long order of lens for the actual FIGHTING part? But face-ups and other CUs, like a stare down, that's still an appropriate place for them...? or no?

Also, for the wide lenses for the fight then, how close should I be - or, how close should I *NOT* be? IE, the default, full wide on the HVX200... how many feet away should I be?

Four feet away, handheld to move with the action, using wide? I want the camera angles to be closer, but to still be wide enough to see... does that make sense? is this a good technique?
 
Longer lenses have a shallower DOF and sometimes that's what you want, wider lenses normally have a greater DOF in which everything is in focus. It's all about experience, trusting your gut as to use certain lenses for certain situations. If it feels like you should use a wide lense or a telephoto, then try it out, see what works.
 
Regardless of the shot, Close-Up, Wide, Mid, you can kinda feel how far away the camera is by the focal length. A CU with a Wide lens feels like we're right up in the actor's face. A CU with a long lens feels like there's some distance: we get a really good look at the guy, but from far away.

For example, say you've got a scene where your main character sees something happening far away from him. If you want a CU of what he's seeing, it should probably be a long lens because he's seeing it from far away. That way even though its a close-up, the camera is far away, just like the main character.
 
You'll never see a beauty shot of the leading lady with a wide angle lens. You need to compress the image with a longer lens for the face to look "normal" on screen. WA are good on facial CUs if you want to make the audience feel uncomfortable...
 
Thanks a lot for all the great info guys!

One more question for Medaocdp - could you respond to my last post right before this as well?
 
But you are just saying, don't use long-short-long-long-short-long-short-short-short-long-short-short-long-long-long-short-long-long-long order of lens for the actual FIGHTING part? But face-ups and other CUs, like a stare down, that's still an appropriate place for them...? or no?
Click to expand...

It depends on the shots. I wouldn't mix extremely different focal lenghts during the scene. (Jumping from full wide to extreme tight)
You don't have to stick to one focal lenght though. If you jump back to a Master, then you might wanna use a slightly wider lens.

If you're shooting a fight scenen and jumping from let's say:
300mm lens (closeup) to a 18mm (master) then to a 35mm (over shoulder)
than to a 14mm (close up) that would look extremly weird.

Also, for the wide lenses for the fight then, how close should I be - or, how close should I *NOT* be? IE, the default, full wide on the HVX200... how many feet away should I be?
Click to expand...

Test it. Look for the images you like most and apply them to your film.
There is no golden rule on how far you should or shouldn't be away.
You have to find the image that suits the scene. You have to decide on how you want it to look. Experiment with it and you'll develop your own style.
 
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