Dear DC/Baltimore, I don't need YOUR experience

pulp

Active member
This is just a small rant, and I hope I don't upset anyone.

I've been fielding a lot of calls and emails lately from people who want to start new projects. This seems pretty common for July and August. I'm starting to see a trend in the clients that I turn down.

Generally, they're very polite, often first-time producers, writers, or talent looking to start a reality show or something for cable access based on social places (sort of interviewing people at clubs and parties and other get-togethers). They have a basic pitch and they know a few things of what they'd like to shoot, but they're usually looking to start a trailer or pilot for the show in hopes of garnering more interest. They're generally inexperienced in this sort of work but think they have a great idea, or have done lower-level work and want to move up, and are looking to hire an entire crew, videographer, gaffer, sound, and in the early stages, a director, videographer, and DP may all be the same thing, as well as casting scout along side the client, etc.

Money is rarely mentioned, and I feel it's rude to bring it up first thing. So, if it's never brought up, I bring it up once all the information on the shoot is presented, or they bring it up as an afterthought.

They're almost always paying nothing, or if it's incredibly last minute, they're willing to pay for my gas. They tell me how wonderful of an opportunity it is for me, as if they're trying to sell it to me rather than get my participation, and that "it'd be great experience for your resume."

I should be straightforward here. I don't need your experience.

Let me back up a bit. I do need experience. I love going out and meeting new people, shooting new kinds of videos, dealing with new clients. I'm always learning, and not only when it comes to the actual camera work and editing, but also as far as dealing with the business side of the transaction. If I did this work for the rest of my life, even if I became very successful with that work and made a considerable amount doing very cut-and-dry, formulated for of shoots after doing them for a long time, I suspect I'll always be learning, and I'll always find that experience useful.

I don't need YOUR experience. In college, I dealt with plenty of people who had no idea how a shoot functioned, no idea how to manage a shoot, and went incredibly over scheduled with literally every shot because of lack of experience. I've BEEN that person. In some regards, I still am. I'd say most everyone is. However, they had a great idea that they believed in, and we followed them.

I don't need that kind of experience again. I do this professionally, and I make my living from it. I use the money I make from it to pay my bills, keep under a solid roof, feed myself daily, and purchase new equipment to keep up on my trade. Unless you have an incredible new idea that you honestly believe people will rally behind without pay, I don't think you'll find someone who's experienced and yet still needs YOUR experience as a start-up. Honestly, why would they? What about tried-and-done reality show formulas and low-level star vehicles do you think a group of professionals will find appealing?

I'm always polite with these people, but if they're offering no money for something that will take a considerable amount of time where I could be getting paid work, I simply tell them it wouldn't be a fiscally responsible choice for me. Often times, they get a bit huffy, as if they're insulted that I turn down their fantastic pitch.

If these people work a day job, which I assume they do, and that day job stopped sending their check each pay period, would they continue to work there, no matter how much they love the job? I doubt it.

/rant
 
You're right. It's rude to bring up money, first thing.

Let them tell you their name, first. Then it's time to start talking about the money.
 
This is an almost monthly thread where those who benefit from free labor will chime in to defend it, and those who are frustrated with trying to make their living doing this stuff will say Amen, Brother.

Free work leads to more free work... and paid work leads to more paid work.

Working for free is fine... for the experience, but realize that there will come a time when [you] realize that what you bring to a shoot has a value... and for as long as you accept working for free people will do everything to avoid paying you... and also realize that the market is saturated with people desperate to be involved in any real productions.

I try to limit favors to friends, or those who can and will reciprocate... all others pay cash.
 
I have observed that frequently people with little-to-no $$$ - the people who should be the most highly organized, and resource/efficiency conscious - are generally the most disorganized, the most professionally discourteous, the most wasteful, display the very poorest basic communication and planning. I suspect that this is in part because they are inexperienced, but actually based upon having seen a lot of the same nonsense from people who have in fact successfully put several small projects together I think that no $$$ = Bad News not so much because one doesn't take home any money, but because people given *anything* free-of-charge (time, labor, resources, whatever) tend to value those things - to the penny - in direct proportion to what they paid for them.

With very few exceptions, the dollars are a sign of respect. And if the dollars are not there, the odds are vastly increased that the respect won't be there either.

*edit* I guess that at the moment if I were to try and frame the big difference between low-no-budget indy-whatever and network/studio work, it would be that the majors pay you the $$$ and pursue you in order to get what they need done; amateurs etc pay you zip, and make you pursue *them*, in order to try and get anything done.

And who the hell needs that?
 
How are these people finding you? Or how are you finding them?

There are enough professional production companies in DC, all of which work in the non-fiction arena, that shooting demo reels for pilots or other development projects with any chance of getting picked up should never be unpaid work.

And the producers I know who have ventured outside the 9-5 with said production companies to produce their own original stuff are usually well networked enough that if they get a professional to work for them on spec, it's someone they've established a relationship with on other paid gigs.
 
Wow. Y'all just see what Matt did there.

Best one-liner of 2011.

As I highly value your expertise Barry... it's an honor for you to say that, however... I've posted those exact same words at some point, every single year... for years now. (it's my auto-response to any of the craigsy-type ad threads)

Because... it is 100% true.

That's not to say all free work is worthless however... I am eager to work with quality people... quality friends... for free, but only with the mutual understanding that the gesture will be reciprocated.

My message to everybody else... Work (a few times) on free projects, but ensure that you have something of value for yourself... to gain from it. That thing could be anything... but if you can't answer that... then you're setting yourself up to be used... and... ditto what Max said 110%.
 
i consider myself a no budget filmmaker. i generally only work with my delusions and it only costs my sanity.
 
You're right. It's rude to bring up money, first thing.

Let them tell you their name, first. Then it's time to start talking about the money.

Exactly. In my most recent successful job getting experience, they told me who they were and what they wanted to do. Took a few minutes. My first question to them was - whats your budget for this project. Its one of the reasons they followed me up. They knew, being a professional organisation this costs and they gave me a ballpark right there and then, and Im guessing (as they called a number of people) no one else asked this simple question. I'd suggest if they cant do that - they havent really thought it through. Red flag.
 
I'll always take guaranteed money over a dream... especially when it's someone else's dream.

Over my own personal dream? No. But most of these examples are "star vehicles," some guy that does something unique for a living and thinks it could be a reality show, or some girl that thinks she could be the next celebrity-for-no-reason and interview other celebrities and psuedo-celebrities at night clubs and the like because she's attractive.

A few weeks ago, a guy wanted to meet me in person to discuss the project. I drove an hour each way to meet with him, and he told me it was a project funded by UnderArmour that followed an up-and-coming baseball player from the minors up. I'd follow him every day, on buses, trains, by car, where ever, shoot all of his games, shoot interviews all the time, some days would be a few hours, others would be all day, I'd pay my own gas, and it paid $120 a day. I told him that was a little low, and he said he'd call me in the future. He didn't call for weeks, and when he did, I didn't answer.
 
I once had a client come to me with his awesome idea and he wanted a video for investors, his clients, and franchisees. I quoted $3,000 for a $9,000 video. He wanted to pay $200. He said he had no money because his idea had already cost him $500,000 and he needed my video to sell it. I respectfully declined. He went to Best Buy and bought a new HD camera, tripod, case, and laptop. This was so he could do it himself. He was the talent so he had his girlfriend shoot the video. She actually did a fair job shooting except she decided to shoot 70% of the video in portrait wide screen not landscape. When he called me in a panic 4 days before a major trade show to "fix" the footage I excepted and charged $2,250 for the edit only.

The moral of the story is no matter how annoyingly out of touch they are it pays to decline respectfully.
 
You're probably a more evolved spirit, than I am. I'm on the brink of chucking a project at Warner because I don't like dealing with people who rush-rush you to get back to them with negotiation details, then blow you off for two days because...well, apparently just because.

Phone's rung with two other projects that I declined because I was waiting on this character. Screw him; next show calls, I'm taking it. Let him find someone else with the 'perfect for our project skill set and equipment fit' about which he was so enthusiastic, 72 hours ago.
 
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