Davinci Resolve - Mac or Win10?

[Dick Campbell]

I've recently discovered DaVinci Resolve (thanks to this forum), and as an old FCP 6 user, the transition was fairly painless. I downloaded the Windows version for trial, but now I will be buying a new horsepower machine for editing, and the question is - do I go with Win 10 or a Mac Pro?

Please don't make this a generic argument for Mac or PC. What I would like to know if there is any advantage for this particular piece of software? Are there features available on one OS not available on the other? Are there performance differences, and so on?

Thank you for your considered opinion,
Dick

 

[Publimix]

For good reviews and tests see pugetsystems.com They have a ton of benchmarks and info. AMD ryzen processors seem a good choice these days.

 

[Paul F]

Also search the Blackmagic Forum which has posts on this topic.

 

[Rainer]

Taking the cost out of the equation, Resolve runs equally well on both systems. Grant Petty acknowledges that most Resolve users are on Mac and so support materials tend to be slanted toward Mac. What probably is most annoying for Windows users is the Resolve Database project tracking system, but it's just a matter of accepting this is how Resolve works and if you're coming from FCP it won't bother you.

 

[Batutta]

If you have no reason to stay in the Mac ecosystem, mainly for iCloud, Messages an iPhone integration, you can get more bang for your buck with a Windows 10 system. Get a Ryzen threadripper and you can destroy any Mac on the market save the MacPro for half the cost. Far as I know there are no OS exclusive features.

 

[John Brawley]

Haven't checked for a long time, but it used to be the case that the Windows version wouldn't render OUT to ProRes ?

Not sure if that's still the case.

If you're building a multi GPU machine this would probably be cheaper in Windows.

BMD are an APPLE centric company though. If that gives you thoughts for the future.

JB

 

[Dick Campbell]

Thanks. I noticed that all of BMd's tutorials are on Macs, which is one of the reasons I asked.

 

[AndreeOnline]

Windows wins in terms of price/performance, if by 'performance' you mean "numbers in a benchmark".*

As mentioned above, PC building with off the shelf components is pretty sweet today with the new Threadrippers. There are enough apps now that can leverage many CPU cores in various situations and you'll feel the benefit there.

Resolve's realtime performance is driven mainly by GPU performance. Some things like debayering of raw has traditionally run on CPU but the trend is that some of that will run on GFX too, like RED's latest releases bringing MacOS Metal acceleration for .r3d to Resolve.

Regardless, strictly for Resolve a Mac is a viable option, because you can beef up the GPU side more or less as much as you want ($$) and Apple is said to be working on getting HEVC acceleration working too for the W5700X card, which would be really good for Drone footage or the latest prosumer cameras.

Personally, I'm struggling to find the Goldilocks 2019 Mac Pro config—there isn't really one for me, but I'm also not really interested in putting a PC together.

Been toying with the idea of dropping two 5700 XTs in my old Cheesegrater. We'll see.


* = and the numbers often translate into actual software performance too, of course. But while some go strictly by the numbers per $, I feel that once I reach "good enough" performance wise, I start to look at the bigger picture and the whole system. This is where I get a lot of value for me personally by using Mac.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Runs great on my 2019 Imac.

 

[JAMedia]

I have been on MAC's for 17 years and on FCPX for about 8 and I am also swapping to Resolve.

I am currently working at a 2012 MAC Pro (Silver Tower) With several MAC Book Pro's of similar vintage ( I Can upgrade memory and other components myself) I also have a PC desktop, two PC laptops and two Linux boxes under the desk as 90TB of RAID6 so I have no blind brand loyalty. My background is critical embedded systems (ie electronics, MCU's and software.) I understand computers down to the microcode in the MCU's.

To many both Apple and Adobe have lost the plot for different reasons and many photographers, video and graphics people have been looking for alternatives for the AA solution. It has been discussed at length but often just gets entrenched into Fan Boys bitching. However it has amidst the fog of debate raised many solutions.

Resolve will run on MAC's Windows and Linux. However as noted there are differences between the Free and studio versions as well as some between the platforms but in general this makes things more difficult as it raises more questions. With FCPX it was easy: Mac or nothing. So double check with BMD on their forum re the differences and check to see if any are crucial

With Mac's AFAIK it is the primary choice of BMD (at the moment) and of course both Apple OSX and Linux are POSIX OS's However PC users do seem happy with Resolve. As do a lot of FCPX users.

As to the choice of platform. It is either a MAC or build a PC and put either Windows or Linux on it. BMD uses a specific Linux and if you can live with that particular Linux then it go with it.

My view of Apple after 17 years is the new machines look good but... The newer laptops are more form over function. My MAC laptops have all the connectors down the sides (like a PC laptop) I don't need a back of adapters for any IO. Also MACa are now a lot LESS repairable by third party repair shops. Apple is doing Apple only versions of many chips even formerly standard parts (see the power circuits) and refuses to let these chips go to third party repairers. Some repairs are now being done by buying something cheap from Apple that has the chip in it and un-solder it to fit in the laptop!!! So if you get a MAC you need a bag of adapters (and spares) and know that any repairs will have to be done by Apple. Expensive! (rant over ) See https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup for a lot more on this.

The other problem is that they use Intel CPU's Well it is not a problem other than form overrides function. The Mac laptops are designed to look nice and run quietly.this is achieved by very few grills or slots for cooling and very quiet fans. What happens is as the CPU heats up the internal thermal protection kicks in and the CPU will self throttle to get the temperature down. The new MAC laptops are getting thinner and lighter. There is nowhere for the heat to dissipate. They will heat up and throttle a lot faster than older MAC laptops. Therefore if you get an equal spec PC laptop and a MAC laptop to run some tests you will find the MAC will be more expensive (both the basic laptop and the adapters needed) and that after a while the PC will get noisy as the fans kick in. (get headphones for editing At this point the performance of the PC will remain constant but the MAC's performance will slow, and slow a lot.

The MAC pro: We are ooking to replace my current MAC pro we looked at specs and pricing. Unless you are going to spend $50,000 on a fully tricked out MAC pro and you can justify this in a business it is not worth doing the entry level MAC pro. Linus Tech Tips https://www.youtube.com/user/LinusTechTips (and there are others) looked at this and built a same spec entry level MAC Pro ($6K) as a PC for $4K (it would have been $3K but they added fancy liquid cooling) However due to the MAC's being quiet and throttling their tests showed that the $4K ($3K) PC was performing like a $10K plus MAC Pro.

That said you can do a Hackintosh That is build your own computer and put OSX on it. I am not sure of the legality of that so it is probably not an option for a business. Also I did see a video where that was done using an AMD Threadripper. So and AMD OSX combination... The problem is you are then "on your own" if any one of the house of cards is changed. I would not recommend a business doing ta Hackintosh. (leave that to the geeks your job is video editing not hacking computers)

That was the gist of my investigations after looking for 6 months. I also looked at this guide from BMD, Despite the title it is a config guide for MAC, PC, Linux for off the shelf computers and a lot of information on build your own Windows or Linux solution. https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/ConfigGuides/DaVinci_Resolve_15_Mac_Configuration_Guide.pdf The point is with a build )or specify) your own PC you can mix and match motherboard, MCU (Intel or AMD), GPU, memory, storage other interface cards etc also at any later date you can easily change any component. Usually for a lot less than the comparable MAC version. Actually there is nothing upgradeable in MAC laptops these days.

We are still using the MACbook Pro's on jobs but not as editors. They have FCPX and Resolve 15 on them. Resolve 16 won't run on them. NOTE BMD support several versions back on OSX but only Win10 64 bit and Officially ONE Linux distribution.

In the end I went with a Dell Precision (£2K5 ) for a mobile Resolve editor and ATEM control. When ordering from Dell you can specify not just the memory and storage but the GPU as well as they build top order. it is performing as well as a friends new £4K5 Macbook.

So I am looking at a PC as a main editor for Resolve. My MAC Pro will be retired, eventually with great sadness. Apple no longer has in the entry to mid level any advantage over a Windows PC. If you can justify £50K for an edit computer... then the MAC PRO full spec is the best option.

 

[AndreeOnline]

I have been on MAC's for 17 years... so I have no blind brand loyalty. I understand computers down to the microcode in the MCU's.

Hi JAMedia!

My view of Apple after 17 years is the new machines look good but... The newer laptops are more form over function. What happens is as the CPU heats up the internal thermal protection kicks in and the CPU will self throttle to get the temperature down.

I never owned one of those computers, but I remember reading about the issue. I think it was pretty closely tied to certain high performing Intel CPUs (that ended up being not-that-high-performing after all). It affected all brands a few generations ago, but to no one's surprise most of the ink was wasted on Apple and MacBook Pros.

The new MAC laptops are getting thinner and lighter.

My MacBook Pro 16" is both thicker and heavier than my old one that went to my wife. It doesn't throttle but the fans spin up when I edit 6K braw in Resolve.

Linus Tech Tips looked at this and built a same spec entry level MAC Pro ($6K) as a PC for $4K... [that] was performing like a $10K plus MAC Pro.(it would have been $3K but they added fancy liquid cooling).

Buying components and building yourself tends to be cheaper than buying pre-built. It's not unique to computers: women buy fabric and designs and sew their own dresses for less that what a brand dress might cost on fancy street. I've built my own golf clubs and mountain bikes and made similar experiences. PCs too.

But like you say: Linus burned an extra $1K on fancy cooling. So think of it as Apple burning another $3K to add a fancy computer around the components and setting up a network of stores around the world with people to sell and service their stuff.

That said you can do a Hackintosh. I am not sure of the legality of that so it is probably not an option for a business.

I'm sure: it's not legal. But I won't hold it against anyone and would do it myself if I thought it was the best option. I've been mulling over a 3970X Threadripper for a while.

Apple no longer has in the entry to mid level any advantage over a Windows PC.

There is a very unfortunate gap in their headless workstations due to the fact that they only have Xeon based solutions. It's a shame, but there is little we can do about it.

It's not much talked about since almost all focus is on 'workstations with swappable components' but the 2019 iMac mentioned above by Mcgeedigital would be a great fit for many kinds of tasks up to medium or medium/heavy loads (depending on how people define those things)

 

[JAMedia]

Hi JAMedia!
I never owned one of those computers , but I remember reading about the issue. I think it was pretty closely tied to certain high performing Intel CPUs (that ended up being not-that-high-performing after all). It affected all brands a few generations ago, but to no one's surprise most of the ink was wasted on Apple and MacBook Pros.

AFAIK most of the intel macs are like that. Yes it affects all Intel users. My Dell Laptop has lots of ventilation slots and good fans. The performance does not drop. Though I tend to use headphones when editing audio out and about.

My MacBook Pro 16" is both thicker and heavier than my old one that went to my wife. It doesn't throttle but the fans spin up when I edit 6K braw in Resolve.

Finally learnt their lesson. The problem is for the last few years apple have followed form over function hence a lot of the heavy users leaving Apple.

Buying components and building yourself tends to be cheaper than buying pre-built. It's not unique to computers: women buy fabric and designs and sew their own dresses for less that what a brand dress might cost on fancy street. I've built my own golf clubs and mountain bikes and made similar experiences. PCs too.

I don't build my own PC's these days. My local supplier would build to order (as do Dell but only from their pick list) For Video Edit computers (and usually gaming PC's) there are many places that specialize in building to order. Like made to measure suits and dresses but not expensive and NOT DIY.

But like you say: Linus burned an extra $1K on fancy cooling. So think of it as Apple burning another $3K to add a fancy computer around the components and setting up a network of stores around the world with people to sell and service their stuff.

Not really. They could have used an ordinary cooling system and still had double the performance for half the price. Also it was a fancy case anyway.

I'm sure: it's not legal. But I won't hold it against anyone and would do it myself if I thought it was the best option. I've been mulling over a 3970X Threadripper for a while.

Apparently Threadripper is the way to go.... until the next best thing. Though the problem is, other than legality, is that you have no idea when (not if) the next update for the apps refuse to run on the Hacked OS.

BTW as you wont hold it against people for stealing software I assume you won't mind if they steal any of your video? It's just 1's and 0's......

It's not much talked about since almost all focus is on 'workstations with swappable components' but the 2019 iMac mentioned above by Mcgeedigital would be a great fit for many kinds of tasks up to medium or medium/heavy loads (depending on how people define those things)

IMacs are much the same as Laptops in this regard. We had a couple years ago. Never again. As you say all non-standard and no swapable or upgradable parts.
My curse is I started life as an Electronics Engineer. These things matter to me.

However as I said I am currently working on a MAC pro... a 2013 vintage one we have swapped out memory, hard drives, Video cards and added other cards in the back.

 

[AndreeOnline]

Not really. They could have used an ordinary cooling system and still had double the performance for half the price. Also it was a fancy case anyway.

To this I still say 'Yes, really'. But I'm not sure we're even in disagreement here. I agree that they could have gone even cheaper on the PC. Less spectacular (and louder) cooling, less polished case (if even a case at all—some run barebones open platforms). You can shave and shave your PC costs until only the core components remain. Then you'll find the max delta between PC vs Mac cost. But the delta between 'pile of stuff' and 'computer' will increase pretty linearly too, as you do that.

BTW as you wont hold it against people for stealing software I assume you won't mind if they steal any of your video? It's just 1's and 0's......

You assume incorrectly. I do mind if people steal my stuff. But I do not police other people, or write on their nose what is right or wrong. You said you weren't sure about the legality so I just wanted to clear that up.

I have number of Macs where I'm already using MacOS according to the license agreement. Now that MacOS is available for free, it has not been my impression that Apple is super eager to come after the tinkerers of the world because they like experimenting, even if it means they are breaking the license agreement they accepted when installing.

IMacs are much the same as Laptops in this regard. We had a couple years ago. Never again.

Sure. But I specifically said the 2019 iMac. Each generation stands on its own in the time it lives. Through the years, some iMacs have been comparatively weak, other years they've done better. As it turns out, the 2019 version with a good config is quite usable in today's computing landscape.

Same goes for my cherry picked late 2015 iMac 5K that I'm writing on now. Bought a year ago for our 'small office' in the apartment for less than LG sells their 5K UltraFine monitor only, I have a CPU with competitive single core performance in 2020, 1TB SSD and 32GB RAM which is enough for Photography, Graphic Design, Xcode and basic Blender work with Eevee. I can even do some basic Resolve editing in HD with 6K source media.

Anyway, it always comes down to: know your own needs and make decisions based on that.

 

[Batutta]

If Apple could sue the Hackintosh community, I believe they would have done so already. They failed in trying to stop the jailbreaking of their phones, with the law citing fair use in the ruling. Probably the same would apply to Hackintoshes. So long as the OS is legally acquired and you aren't modifying the operating system or reselling computers with the OS installed, I'm not sure they have many legal legs to stand on.

 

[Dick Campbell]

You guys are great! Enjoyed the discussion.

 

[juanlien]

For good reviews and tests see pugetsystems.com They have a ton of benchmarks and info. AMD ryzen processors seem a good choice these days.

great advice