Crossing the line when shooting actors walking a 360 degree circle?
- Thread starter jerbuds
- Start date
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SeanEmer
Guest
As long as you have established the space, you can cross the line. For example if your actors start on the left wall of the garage standing towards each other and then one actor walks to a chair on the other side, thus changing the line, as long as we have established where the chair is in relation to where they were, crossing the line isn't as much of an issue. Just try to be sure that when cutting back and forth between the two actors you maintain screen direction. Crossing the line would only be for when they are in motion. Of course, thats all relative...
craigbowman
Veteran
You can also cross a line when making a tracking shot as long as the audience is brought "along for the ride" during the cross. For static blocking you can also use an actor as a hinge for the line cross, activating camera positions you need to have on the other side of the line and noting which camera positions from the old side of the line you shouldn't be using at that instance during the edit.
Remember, the director should totally decide and coordinate with you on how the blocking and staging of the scene will work, not actors deciding willy nilly of their own volition.
Detailed instructions, examples and various techniques are shown and discussed in the DVD series Hollywood Camerawork Master Course in Blocking and Staging. http://hollywoodcamerawork.us
Remember, the director should totally decide and coordinate with you on how the blocking and staging of the scene will work, not actors deciding willy nilly of their own volition.
Detailed instructions, examples and various techniques are shown and discussed in the DVD series Hollywood Camerawork Master Course in Blocking and Staging. http://hollywoodcamerawork.us
Finnegan
Well-known member
Of all the guidelines of cinematic orientation, the 180 degree line is the most flexible. As SeanEmer said up there, as long as you've established the space it's definitely okay to cross the line. The line, as you know, is there to keep the audience oriented properly in the space and sometimes crossing it without letting the audience know what kind of space they're in is disorienting. Establish the space first, and well, and you'll not have that problem.
RyanT
Veteran
I sort of disagree....I feel like the 180 degree line is the most hard and fast rule that there is around. Not saying you can't break it, but when you do you can just create different levels of disorientation, depending on how well you've laid out the screen geography.
Sean Emer, why do you say that crossing the line is only for when people are in motion? You can have a dialogue scene with two people sitting down and still cross the line very very easily...
If you haven't been able to get a hold of the hollywood camerawork DVD's, I suggest you do. Half of the first DVD is on maintaining screen direction and the line. Things get very tricky when you begin to have more and more people. How many actors do you have? If it's only two (or especially if it's more), I would suggest blocking it out with overhead diagrams, showing the character movement. That way you can see where they'll be and where you'll put your camera and shots. Storyboards are good and all, but it's very hard to get efficient coverage with them as you just tend to add another camera for each time you want to cut, instead of trying to maximize the usage of each shot.
Sean Emer, why do you say that crossing the line is only for when people are in motion? You can have a dialogue scene with two people sitting down and still cross the line very very easily...
If you haven't been able to get a hold of the hollywood camerawork DVD's, I suggest you do. Half of the first DVD is on maintaining screen direction and the line. Things get very tricky when you begin to have more and more people. How many actors do you have? If it's only two (or especially if it's more), I would suggest blocking it out with overhead diagrams, showing the character movement. That way you can see where they'll be and where you'll put your camera and shots. Storyboards are good and all, but it's very hard to get efficient coverage with them as you just tend to add another camera for each time you want to cut, instead of trying to maximize the usage of each shot.
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SeanEmer
Guest
I didn't say it was impossible. I meant that it would be the least disorienting cutting across the line if characters were in motion and we were aware of the space. Of course you can cross the line whenever you want, but doing it without confusing the audience is a bit of a trick. Just to be clear, when I say "crossing the line" I mean through a cut, not a movement.
Also notice I said it would be relative... meaning it depends on your situation. I said to only cross the line during motion for this specific scene since it is the easiest time to do so and would make the most sense since the environment has been established and characters are suddenly moving about in it.
Chris Santucci
Veteran
As long as you don't cut between 2 actors talking to each other (who are facing each other) and they each face the same direction in the frame, you should be fine. Just make sure you have a master shot (or 2).
Watch some scenes in movies with multiple actors in the same space to get an idea how this is handled.
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Watch some scenes in movies with multiple actors in the same space to get an idea how this is handled.
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Understand why the rule is there. But it is broken all the time. Watching the John Adams miniseries ( phenomenal cinematography - but it should be for $100 million) - they will routinely cut from a headshot of an actor facing left to a headshot of the same character facing right.
rsbush
Well-known member
A couple of editing solutions to crossing the line are:
1. Cut-aways. Cut-aways make people forget their sense of direction in the last movement shown, so that a new direction doesn't feel unnatural.
2. Neutral direction. Have the subject move in a neutral direction - toward or away from camera - during the change of movement.
1. Cut-aways. Cut-aways make people forget their sense of direction in the last movement shown, so that a new direction doesn't feel unnatural.
2. Neutral direction. Have the subject move in a neutral direction - toward or away from camera - during the change of movement.
I think the 180° rule is also the most mis-used rule by anyone who thinks they ever learnt something about filmmaking to badmouth your camera work.
You can always make up some imaginary line (especially when there's more than two actors) and claim the 180° rule has been broken. I was once told by an editor that my shots of someone entering a room couldn't be edited because they were over the line: the shot showed someone walking towards a door opening it, I was like 10° right of him, then he entered and I shot from the inside, about 5° right of his "walking line" again. If you didn't look for it, there wasn't an angle at all, and everybody who didn't know the 180° rule wouldn't have noticed a thing...
It's not the 1900's, and film isn't a new medium: as long as there is some orientation in the room, you can inter-cut a whole lot of things without running into problems. I mean you have a monitor and your imagination on set - as long as you buy it, the audience will buy it, too!
You can always make up some imaginary line (especially when there's more than two actors) and claim the 180° rule has been broken. I was once told by an editor that my shots of someone entering a room couldn't be edited because they were over the line: the shot showed someone walking towards a door opening it, I was like 10° right of him, then he entered and I shot from the inside, about 5° right of his "walking line" again. If you didn't look for it, there wasn't an angle at all, and everybody who didn't know the 180° rule wouldn't have noticed a thing...
It's not the 1900's, and film isn't a new medium: as long as there is some orientation in the room, you can inter-cut a whole lot of things without running into problems. I mean you have a monitor and your imagination on set - as long as you buy it, the audience will buy it, too!