Critique my script, please...

Hey I read about 1/4th of it and was very impressed. If I get more time later I'll finish it but keep up the good work and let me know if you ever get it made, I'd love to see the final product.
 
Zach, I appreciate your concern. But if you'll re-read my original post, you'll see that I said it's not formatted properly on the webpage. Rest assured, the actual script itself (the MS Word file) is, indeed, formatted correctly. When I get some time, I'll try to get a properly formatted version up on the webpage -- that one was put up in a hurry.

Also, I'm not looking to pitch this script -- I'm producing it myself. I just want to see if there's anything that can be done to make it better before we get in front of the camera.

Nick, thanks for the positive words. I really appreciate it, and look forward to hearing your thoughts once you've finished reading the script.
 
Deal. Give me until Monday though - this newborn son of mine has my 'after work' hours all locked up. Who knew they needed so much attention? ;)
 
Hey David I just finished reading the script and I loved it! All the ironic twists kept me on the edge of my seat, and I loved the fact that it all took place in one room from the webcam. Also you mentioned that you are going to produce it yourself-that's what I had hoped. Let me know when your done as I'd love to see the finished product. I'd offer to help, but my specialty is writing and you've got that covered brilliently-but needless to say if there's any little thing I can do I'd be happy to try and help. Keep up the good work!
 
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Thanks so much Nick! Very gratifying to hear.

Any suggestions at all for improvements? Dialogue? Plot? Anything? I want this to be absolutely the best it can possibly be.

IBE, congrats on the new addition! It'll probably take me until Monday to read your script as well, and I don't have your great excuse. :-)
 
I can't think of any improvements off hand. Later on I'll skim through it again and see if I come up with anything, but it was pretty rock-solid work!
 
Again, thanks Nick. (Your check is in the mail!) ;-)

Since this is the first feature-length script I've written totally on my own, it's important to me to get objective opinions on it. Family and friends will always say, "It's great." I've gotten a lot of positive feedback from actors, but it's been pointed out to me that they might just be sucking up in hopes of landing a role. So I posted here in hopes of getting that all-important objective feedback.

I hope others will read the script and add their thoughts and criticisms. Anybody? Beuller??
 
I think you could make this in a day for next to nothing if you played your cards right, pretty smart.

SPOILERS

One thing I think you should reconsider is the length, I don't think this even comes close to working at 85 pages.

In the first 70 pages you establish:
1. Shannon loves her children and will take abuse (to a ridiculous degree without displaying the traits typical to an abused woman who stays)
2. Alex is an outrageous jerk (so outrageous and unrealistic it's distracting)
3. Taylor is an amazingly supportive guy (also unrealistically so and also distracting)

The problem is that these points are all effectively made within the first 20 pages. The next 50 only to serve to belabor the points which don't hold up to closer scrutiny.

I am certain that #s 2 and 3 were deliberate since they play into the big payoff at the end, which I thought was well done, but #1 feels like an insult to our intelligence. The idea that this woman who loves her children so much would willingly stay in a relationship with this guy who on one occasion broke their son's arm is ludicrous as is the concept that the guy's cop friends would laugh at her reports of abuse.

My advice to you: Cut this down to 25-30 pages.
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
I've gotten a lot of positive feedback from actors, but it's been pointed out to me that they might just be sucking up in hopes of landing a role.
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Don't you worry, I don't think I'm a very good actor, and am definately not looking to land any roles so that's not the case with me!:)

Also, I hate to contradict people, but I don't think you should cut it down at all. After quickly glancing over it again I think you might be able to get away with taking out a few of Shannon's repeated lines about how she loves her children and how she can't get out of the situation. However I would probably keep it because the suspense of it all and the build up really leads the audience well into the final boom(s). And being a writer myself I sometimes use repetition to make a point or to emphasize something. But please take all the criticism you get and consider it, I'm just telling you how I feel.

Cheers! :beer:
 
Thanks A Messenger. I'll have to give your points some serious thought.

I do want to try to keep the overall length of the movie itself down to about 70-75 minutes.

As for your point about Shannon's behavior, what are the typical behaviors of a woman in an abusive situation who stays for the sake of her children? I mean, no to be argumentative, but I've known at least two women in exactly that situation who behaved fairly 'normal' -- whatever that means. :-) They seemed to achieve a mental state where they were resigned to their fate. They lived as normally as they could, but were always careful what they said and did around the abusive spouse. I'd like some input as to how you think Shannon's behavior would work better.

I agree that those three points are all made in the first 20 pages -- that and the fact that Shannon's best friend Kelly is aware of what's going on and is a good and supportive friend. However, I'm not sure I agree that the next 50 pages only belabor the points. The fact that (a) Shannon loves her children and will suffer abuse rather than risk losing them, (b) Alex is a complete and total jerk (I've known people exactly like him too), and (c) Taylor is loving and supportive (thus providing Shannon with the hope of a better life) -- those three things are exactly the elements that build the pressure up leading to the climax of the story. I'm not sure it's enough to simply say 'Okay, here are the facts. Now here's what happens.' I think for Shannon's change of heart to accepting the idea of killing Alex -- for that to be believable, the pressure has to build up to the point where the audience believes Shannon truly has no choice -- that it's her life and the lives of her children that hang in the balance.

You say you don't think Shannon would willingly stay in the abusive relationship with Alex after Alex broke Jordan's arm. Why? What choice would she have had? Or, more accurately, what choice would she BELIEVE she had? If she believes she can't possibly divorce Alex and keep her children, then whether that's true or not doesn't matter.

And I know what you're saying -- that it's hard to believe the other cops would laugh about her abuse claim. But keep in mind this is HER view of what happened. We're hearing her telling Taylor about it. If I were SHOWING the other cops laughing, that would be different. But if she only FELT like they didn't take her claim seriously, that's another matter. It could have been just swept under the rug, and her saying they 'laughed' about it could just be a figure of speech brought on by her anger and resentment over the outcome.

At any rate, that's what I was driving for. But as I said, I'll look at it again with your suggestions in mind, and see what happens. I do appreciate you taking the time to read the script and give me your input. Thanks!

And Nick -- I can't afford to send you any more checks! :-)
 
I enjoyed the script a lot, but I have to agree with Messenger on a few points. Ill give you a few random ruminations/thoughts.

First of all, I wouldnt shorten it terribly - I think youre right that the story needs time to percolate to get us to where it ends up.

I would, however, agree that the characters need a little work - especially Alex. He is a very one dimensional bad guy - seems to be bad/mean/an asshole just because hes the badguy and hes supposed to. I wouldve toned him down just a little bit (not necessarily how mad he can be at his most upset, but perhaps how many times you hit us over the head with it).

I wasnt crazy about how Kelly kept referring to Alex as 'asshole' etc.. It seemed to be shoving it in Shannon's face, and I doubt shed be okay with it. I was under the impression (perhaps incorrectly - im no expert) that many victims of abuse think their partners still do truly love them - it just seemed unlikely that Shannon would be okay with Kelly referring to her life in such terms, even if meant in a light manner.

Also - on what Messenger mentioned - I do think you painted it perhaps too bleak to start. If Alex really did break their childs arm (something that would definitely require a hospital trip) - questions wouldve been asked about what happened, and I doubt someone their sons age (a bully etc.) couldve broken his arm from punching/fighting/twisting etc.. My point is - if Alex was that bad and their kids are going to the hospital over it, questions are going to be asked, potentially casting Alex in blame (yes, even though hes a cop) and giving Shannon a potential way out. I might suggest downplaying the injuries from the past that you mention.

And finally, on the end - I liked your twists. You could kinda sense a twist coming, but I definitely couldnt tell what it was going to be. Good job on that. But you kinda fall victim to the, 'oh, now that you have me beat, let me tell you my whole plan...' curse. Theres too much explaining - its good for the audience, but seemed unrealistic and forced as dialogue goes. I would definitely shorten that section up - especially the GeekSquad guy, his lines during the scene seemed the worst of the bunch. I kept waiting for one of the bad guys to make another move before the cops came, but everyone just talked...and explained...and talked some more. Again, everything that happens in the scene is good, I think you just need to tighten to really hit with it.

Overall I enjoyed it much! There were a few writing issues that bothered me as a reader, but I wont bore you with them as youre making it yourself. I think it has a great chance as a low budget feature with a simply designed shoot - just definitely find the right actors. With something carrying this much emotion you really need to find the right people otherwise it could start to sound cliche. Good luck!
 
I'll give you some honest criticism.

First, the good:

This is a great concept: the entire voyeristic thing is a fresh take on what otherwise would be probably a pretty average story. Seeing the whole film through a webcam is a great way to produce this for next to nothing. For most of it, the dialogue seems fairly solid. Up until the end you seem to have a good feeling for your characters and can make them talk with relative ease. Definitely could see the movie playing out as I watched this.

Now for the not so good:

I felt like the film was just ambling along too much and ultimately I started to wonder where it was going. It wasn't until pg. 20 that things started to pick up when we discover her online love interest and her desire to get out of the house. Throughout the next 30 pgs or so, the film doesn't go a whole lot further. We have her debating with Taylor and Kelly about her predicament, and at some point Alex catches her on the cam (which was the biggest conflict of the film in my opinion), but not much else happens. The last 20 pages things pick up (with her attempted suicide) and her final drive to kill Alex, but that's a whole hour into the film. I think if you threw in more conflict and situations where Shannon was more at stake (either her life, or discovering Taylor was spying on her), then things would be more interesting.

The end is a real let-down. The twist has just been played out too many times and I felt the momentum rushing out of the script as soon as the second twist comes. The first twist is alright and believable, but the second one is just over the top. There's also WAY too much exposition that goes on between the characters about how Shannon managed to find out and how she got the gun, etc. The dialogue in this section was almost unreadable. The part with Bobby was the jump the shark moment in the script for me.

Overall, you have a great concept and a good knack for writing dialogue, which suggests that you could easily make this thing more interesting. The voyeristic aspect kept me engaged mostly because I just wanted to find out where it was going. Once it reached its destination, however, I was quite disappointed.

I could go into more detail about the script, but I don't want to ramble on too much. If you can build some more conflict into the script and make this a little more than just a talking heads piece, I think you've got yourself a good script.
 
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Okay Lt Col and Welton, you've given me things to chew on. Let me ask you some things...

Welton, you say the first 20 pages the film was 'just ambling along'. What would you do differently? I kinda felt like I was establishing the characters, their relationships, and the central conflict for Shannon. I know that could all be done in just a few sentences, but it doesn't seem that emotionally satisfying for me. I suppose any film could be cut way down and turned into a short -- even 'Titanic' or 'Lord of the Rings'. But for me, the whole point of a feature-length movie is to be able to really get into the people, their relationships, and building up to the climax.

I feel like the timing of events is fairly solid -- finding out about Shannon's relationship with Taylor is a turning point in the story. That event falling around pg 20 seems about right to me. So let's start with the first 20 pgs. What would you add to what's already there to make it better? (I'll ponder about what could be taken out later.) I don't really want Shannon to find out Taylor is spying on her until the end.

Next question -- you both seem to think there's too much expository dialogue going on at the end. Maybe you're right -- but without it, how can I explain to the audience what happened? How can I tell the audience that Bobby found out someone was spying on Shannon, that he told Shannon, that they traced it to Taylor, and then found Taylor's emails to Kelly outlining the whole murder plot? After all, this is critical information -- it explains how Shannon was prepared for what happened. And how do I convey to the audience why Alex's shooting Shannon didn't harm her in the least? (Because of the blanks.) Or how Shannon got bullets for her gun?

I know that filmmakers, writers, and even some audience folks often moan and groan about expository dialogue -- especially when the bad guy is holding a gun on the hero and waxing poetic about his evil plans, when we're all shouting 'Just SHOOT him already!' But really, without that dialogue, how can we convey the hidden elements of the story to the audience? I'm totally up for ideas on how to do this, so please give me your thoughts.

And one more point.....I disagree that Alex shouldn't be one-dimensionally evil. I mean, think about it -- LOTS of movies have one-dimensionally evil villains in them. Beyond that, remember this -- throughout the whole movie Alex, Kelly and Taylor are engineering a situation that will push Shannon to the brink and force her to attack Alex, so he can kill her. Each is playing a particular role in that plan -- Alex's job is to make Shannon's life hell, Taylor's job is to be the epitome of goodness and light so Shannon will be desperate to be with him, and Kelly's job is to prod her on when needed. As such, it seems logical that Alex would be totally evil, doesn't it?

I really appreciate the insights, folks. It's helping a LOT! And I hope you don't feel I'm being defensive or argumentative -- I'm just trying to debate the various points and see what rise to the top.

Thanks!
 
I do want to try to keep the overall length of the movie itself down to about 70-75 minutes.
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Why? What possible benefit could there be to having a movie that's to short to be a feature and to long to be a short?

What do you think people are going to enjoy about your movie?

What is interesting about it aside from the twist ending 1 hr into the picture?

Why are your characters going to be interesting to an audience for 1 hr before the payoff?

These are the questions you should be trying to answer for yourself. The first hour will kill your movie if it isn't compelling. You've stacked the deck against yourself, I wish you luck.
 
I want to keep it down to 70-75 mins because I think any movie that has no change in camera angle or position whatsoever is going to have a hard time keeping an audience's interest much longer than that. I could be wrong, but that's my theory.

I don't think 75 mins is 'too short to be a feature'. In fact, the prevailing wisdom (gleaned from books on the subject) for indie filmmakers trying to get their first theatrical release is that they should try to make the movie shorter, so that theaters can run it more times in a day. The idea is that this gives the theater a better chance to make more money on the movie. That will appeal to distributors considering acquiring your movie. At least, so I've read. It seems to make sense to me.

Now granted, 'Tangled Web' has ZERO chance of being a theatrical release for a number of reasons, and the same time elements don't come into play with direct-to-video films. But my point is that 75 mins is quite an acceptable length for an indie 'feature', in my opinion.

Okay A Messenger, I get it -- you don't like the script. Fair enough. If you have some positive suggestions that might help, I'd love to hear them. If not, that's fine -- I don't expect everyone to like it. It is largely a 'chick flick', I realize, and not everyone's cup of tea.

What do I think people are going to enjoy about my movie? I think they're going to identify with the main character -- Shannon. I think they're going to sympathize with the bad situation she's in. I think they're going to appreciate Kelly and her support. Then when the first 'twist' comes -- not 1 hr into the movie, but substantially earlier -- when Taylor pops up on the scene, I think the audience is going to be interested in their relationship, and how in some ways it further complicates Shannon's dilemma. I think they're going to enjoy seeing Shannon getting more involved with Taylor. Then, when the 2nd 'twist' comes -- the beating from a drunken Alex -- I think the audience is going to feel even more for Shannon and long for some resolution that will give her a happy life. I think the next 'twist' -- the idea of how to kill Alex -- will really grab the audience, and then they'll enjoy the ride to the final resolution. It's about the people, the relationships, and the choices -- good and bad -- that they make.

What is interesting about it? The people, the difficult emotional and physical situation that Shannon is in, and how Shannon is compelled to resolve it.

Why are the characters going to be interesting to the audience? Shannon is a likeable person in a bad situation. The good guys are really good, the bad guys are really bad. Which was one of the things I loved about the original 'Star Wars', among other movies.

That's the way I see it. If you can give me some constructive ideas on how to make the first hour more compelling, please do. I'm all ears.
 
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