Crew Rates?

Norm Sanders

Norm Sanders

Script Wrangler
Trying to get a rough idea of what I can get away with for budget on a feature ... going to be 3 consecutive 6 day weeks, 18 days total.

SAG's ultra low modified agreement for films $200K and less gives me a bench mark that I could pay talent $100 a day, and still be fair (though I'm REALLY tempted to skip going SAG signatory on this, as it's a TON of red tape, and the agreement won't allow DVD distribution).

However, I'm digging around for crew rates & coming up blank. From the best I've been able to gather it all appears pretty relative, and more about just what you can negotiate, though I'd like to have some fairly flat standards, save for perhaps a few KEY people.

Any ideas? I know the pros here could easily get $400+/day for some of their jobs, so offering $100-150/day could be a big insult ... though hopefully they just love the story & team they'll be working with and want to do it anyway.
 
Well, after working on a couple of features, DP, Camera Op, 1st and 2nd AC, I can tell you that there is not alot of money to be made in this field of work, at least at this level. We do it becuase we love it, and those are the people that you want on your set. I have worked from $150 a day for a long term feature and up to $1200 a day for some corporate work. So why on earth would I want to work on a feature for 10% of what I could be making? Well becasue I love it. Not sure if this answers your question, but basically what I am saying is this, if your story is good, you will find talent and crew willing to work at a reduced price. In seattle $150 - $200 a day is pretty normal for Grip and AC's working on a long term feature.
Now that isn't to say we don't have bills to pay either, so paying your crew what you can afford is never a bad thing, it's better than working for free. . . which brings me to my next point. . . Internships. Put an ad out at local schools looking for PA's as an internship. There are alot of good people out there looking to work on features, and some are willing to work just to get the experience.
By the way, I don't live too far from you and am always looking for a good feature to work on :) What crew positions are you looking to fill?
 
I assume that the query is so that you can write your budget to submit to SAG for establishing the specific contract that you will be subject to. If you are going to go below market rates for any crew position, you will want to provide supporting documentation that you can in fact obtain these rates. A "deal memo" from your key crew members showing the rates you have negotiated might be a good place to start.

What you want to avoid is being too close to the limits for any given contract and then have them argue that you are going to have to bump up to the next level based upon low balling some aspects of your submitted budget.

As for not going with a SAG contract, I would recommend that you do try to work with them. They really are not that difficult (as long as you do the necessary paper work and don't miss submitting time sheets) and you get the advantage of working with professional actors at very inexpensive rates.

If you want to PM me, I can get you a few examples of budgets that have gone through the scrutiny of SAG and passed.
 
Ummm... $100-$150 a day for lead actors?? I think not. Unless you have a story that's out of this world, I don't think you'll find any real talent for that. That's what PA's get down here in Dallas. Not sure if it's different somewhere else, but I can't see that it'd be THAT much of a difference.

Most of my friends down here work in the industry as PA's, Grip's, electrician's, second AD, Audio Engineer, etc. One just signed on as a PA/Grip (probably do a lot more than just PA) on a low budget feature and is getting close to his usual rate at $200 a day for five weeks ($1000 a week - five shooting days a week). He wouldn't take any lower than $150 a day for anything... even a "good story".

"Prison Break" is shooting down here (and have been for a few months now), and they're trying to pay PA's $90 a day! No one's taking it, and they're spending more money in the long run because they have all these people running around that don't know what the hell they're doing. The only people making any real money off of it are the lead's, producer's, director, DP, makeup, etc. BUT... they're pissing everyone off by offering such low, and insulting, rates to the people that do all the hard work.

Get all your buddy's to help out as much as they can, and hire pro's to do the rest. One good electrician (with the right pay) can be more proficient, and do a better job than 3 people lacking the knowledge.

You get what you pay for, basically. Just my .02...
 
I payed my costume designer and makeup lady each $100 per day on Smuggler's Ransom, and they were both pro and experienced, but they got excited about the project, and didn't mind taking the lower pay.
 
Actually, you can get very good SAG actors for $100-$150 a day. I just worked on a movie where the 2 lead actors made just that. It's usually up to the agent of course... In our case we had 2 very well known actors play minor roles, but the movie is getting exposure because of that, which will give a lot of exposure to the two lead actors, and that's priceless. Also the director is a fairly well know tv writter/producer, but the budget was ultra-low and shot in HD (Sony Cine Alta).
 
SAG does not necessarily mean you are getting more "professional" or better actors. Anybody can become sag if they want to pay some money to get their sag membership.

there are some marvelously talented people out there without sag membership. or equity or any of that.
Jason
 
Daily Rate basic rundown for low budget feature (Dallas, TX):

Grips:
Key = 600
Best boy = 400
other = 300

Electric:
Same as grips (3 at 600, 400, 300)

1st AC = 600

Makeup = 300
Wardrobe = 300

1st AD = 1000
2nd = 350-400

Production Manager = 600
Production Coordinator = 300

PA's = 200 ( at least 4-5 PA's. 15-20 would be better)

Craft Service's = 250 (food = another 250-300)

Art Department:
Lead = 600
Greensman = 300
other = 250

Producer = 1000 (lots of times they're paid off the back end)
Director = 3000 (starting point)

Audio = 650
Audio assist = 300

Talent = 300-1 million (300 for someone without agent, SAG, etc.)

I'm sure I forgot a lot in there, but that's a basic rundown rate's down here in Dallas, and those are the key people needed for a pro shoot. And yes, those are daily rate's.
 
Ramjet1979 said:
SAG does not necessarily mean you are getting more "professional" or better actors. Anybody can become sag if they want to pay some money to get their sag membership.

there are some marvelously talented people out there without sag membership. or equity or any of that.
Jason
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This is completely UNTRUE!

AFTRA is a guild that you can join with a check, but SAG is not. You need to either get a "Taft Hartley" (which is difficult as the production company needs to justify the reason that they are hiring a non union member over a union one, so you have to really stand out to justify the penality that they must pay the union to hire you) or by getting three "back ground" vouchers (this is much more difficult than many think and can literally take years of back ground work to accumulate).

Yes there are many talented actors that lack the prestigious guild cards, but rest assured, that SAG actors (at least in the LA market) are the real thing and getting to use them at ULB or Modified ULB rates is a tremendous bargain.
 
I normally pay $400/10 ($400 for a 10-hour day) for an experienced electrician. About $550-$800 for a gaffer. Even with friends, no one will work for less than $300-$350/day. But in your case, I would say, $250 is a reasonable rate for reasonably experienced people, especially in a market such as yours. I would guess $150 for someone who knows something, but is somewhat inexperienced. I paid two PAs on my RUNWAY short $75 each (they were VERY short days), and the lead actress, $150/day.
 
Forgive me if I am incorrect about buying sag membership, I was more thinking along the lines of Actors Equity Cards for Stage actors, which you can simply purchase if you have the dollars to do so.

That being said, there are still plenty of extremely talented non unionized actors, and plenty of crappy unionized ones.

Apologies, but I don't believe that all LA based SAG actors are the "real thing". Humbly:) I just don't buy it. I have seen some shittly actors with sag membership, who never work. And some good ones who don't work and some shitty ones who end up getting tons of really high paying work (Keanu Reeves comes to mind) and ruining what they are in.

Ok, the last part was a joke, but anyways. Again, I'm sorry, but I think that just becuase one has a SAG card or what not, does not mean that they are the "real deal" or whatever. That seems a bit of an elitest attitude.

Yes, being a member of a union does have benefits to the individual, but it doesn't make them legit, so to speak

Just my pinion
Jason
 
Actually, you could pay people much lower day rates if you negotiate a weekly rate. For some, the promise of three weeks' steady work is worth a negotiated weekly rate.
 
Rezfactor said:
Actually, you could pay people much lower day rates if you negotiate a weekly rate. For some, the promise of three weeks' steady work is worth a negotiated weekly rate.
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Agreed... but keep in mind, they would probably want to have cash in hand by the end of each week. They've been screwed too many times before...
 
And yet the limitations of SAG have not kept some recent Aussies jumping into big budget movies first off. Money talks. Very true.. But on a low budget feature with an ear to the ground and a nose for talent you can get away with a lot. Use your brain more and wallet less at this end. Evrything is negotiable.
 
Rezfactor said:
Actually, you could pay people much lower day rates if you negotiate a weekly rate. For some, the promise of three weeks' steady work is worth a negotiated weekly rate.
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I gotta agree. I will take a much lower day rate if it is a job that runs over more days. I usually will work a week at three times my day rate. If it were a three week gig , I would likely go a bit lower.
 
rcbrown23 said:
Agreed... but keep in mind, they would probably want to have cash in hand by the end of each week. They've been screwed too many times before...
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One of the protections that SAG has for their members is that they get the production company to post a bond to cover at least the first weeks wages.

Also, SAG owns your film until you satisfy all the requirements of your contracts, so everyone is much more likely to get what they have been promised. Most better actors that I know won't do a non union job unless they already know the production company or producer before. Otherwise, they are just too likely to get screwed.

If a production company or producer is unable or unwilling to do the work up front to become a SAG signatory, how likely are they to complete the project or have the experience to get it into the market? If you want to work with professionals, you need to be one as well. It really isn't that hard and SAG Indie is so willing to help assist at a lot of steps of the way.

Its really worth considering seriously.
 
Indeed... and you have a lot of time to work out all the details for the SAG stuff.... for my last film (SR) I just didn't have the time... I was blessed to have actors who trusted us though and knew we wouldn't screw them over if something came out of the project. Time is killer though, it's better to deal with all this crap now, then later.
 
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