Creating fake dust / and silhouette-in-doorway shot

jeff jassky

jeff jassky

Active member
Hey guys. I'm wondering if anyone has any good tips on creating fake dust.

The only thing that I can really think of that would be easy to do and reailstic - is wood dust from a sander. (saw dust - but technically not from a saw. From a sander so it's a finer dust).

Anyone have any ideas?

I'm overally pretty new to this stuff. I'd like to create a shot as the following describes:

a shot from inside of a shed shooting towards the door
A man opens the door letting beams of bright light in.
The man is underexposed so you only see a silhouette.
When the door slams open - dust falls through the air in the bright beams of light giving the feeling that he hasn't been in there for years

I realize I'll have to somehow pump alot of light from behind him and overall under expose the image to make him a silhouette... but otherwise does anyone have any tips? I've never really done this before, so anything would be awesome.

Thanks guys!

-Jeff
 
You can use a fog machine to create mist in the air, then CC it in the yellow brown range

or you go to your local baseball park and grab some dirt from around the bases (it is usaualy very fine from all the sliding)

be be forewarned- dust/fog can be very irritating to talent - OR YOUR CAMERAS HEADS
 
Hey thanks for that. Yeah the fog machine is a good idea.

The "talent" that I have isn't really a talent. He's just a friend of mine/my sisters boyfriend. He won't really care. And as far as the cameras heads go - might be good for me to throw a cover over it, aye? There won't be too much dust, but that's a good idea. I'll probobly try both sawdust and the dust from a baseball field. I'd like something that "floats" in the air, so I'm looking for something light. I think the stuff from a baseball field might be a bit heavy - but it's a good idea. I'll try both out.

This will be my first attempt at actually creating any sort of video. I'm considering making a "short film" about a guy fixing a leaky hose spigot. He's going into the shed to get a toolbox. Haha... that's the best thing I could come up with. I'm not a writer :(.

Thanks for the tip. I'll give that a shot. Anyone else have any ideas? Thanks!
-Jeff
 
jeff jassky said:
This will be my first attempt at actually creating any sort of video. I'm considering making a "short film" about a guy fixing a leaky hose spigot. He's going into the shed to get a toolbox. Haha... that's the best thing I could come up with. I'm not a writer
Click to expand...
sounds more interesting than most crap out of Hollywood. If you are shooting a story about something as monotonous as home plumbing, show it to us in a way we would not normaly see it....

dont worry about it if is sounds boring, a couple years ago 2 guys won an award at Sundance and their whole short film was just about setting their answering machine.
 
thanks.. well I think I'm going to give it a shot. Unfortunately I don't have an old and delapedated shed. Infact the shed I'll have to use was built like... a year ago.. so it's basically new. Not exactly what I would choose. But I don't really have a choice. If the whole thing pans out I'll post it in the clips/grabs section :) thanks man

-Jeff
 
Unbleached flour.

Or bleached flour, for that matter, but it sounds like you want it a little brown....
 
I'd go with the sanded wood dust or saw duct. get both from a wood shop and test it out.

bear in mind you'll need serious light to pullit off properly, like 4 to 8k minimum, ideally 12k about 20 feet up and 40 feet back. unless you can find a place where the sun hits it just right and go available. but you'll have to shoot quick.

I've seen this shot done many times and it's very popular in horror films and music videos. it's a really cool shot. I even have something similar in one of my features.
 
if you don't have access to the right kinds of light, you can fake the same shot by doing it at night and making simulated car lights you source; but that won't give you the cool downward angle light beams you really want.
 
Oh. Another thing, no matter which "dust" you use (except for dirt): it's flammable. Explosively so. So be careful.
 
Hey thanks everyone..

I don't have access to that kind of lighting. I'm not sure if I'll be able to end up with this shot or not. I might have to do some sort of VFX... Which I've never really done before.. so.. I don't know. I'll probobly have to use a fog machine and a few car headlights at night. I only have 1k of lighting available to me.

Thanks for all of your tips. I'll probobly either use saw dust of flour. Both of those are readily available to me.

I'm not too worried about either of these exploding on me :). Thanks everyone!

-Jeff
 
Saw dust is NOT explosive. don't worry about that.

your problem is you don't have the lights to acheive desired effect; even at night, just 1k won't cut it.

I'd recommend finding the right location and using the sun.
 
yeah. I'd really like to do that. Unfortunately I just moved here and don't know anyone yet. We have a shed, but it's turned 90 degrees from the sun at almost all times.

yeah I know saw dust nor flour are explosive :). We've got a wood shop set up here at our place. I've done my share of woodworking. I've got 1k of lights and one cars worth of headlights :(. I'm going to try and do what I can :/ Unfortunately I have a $0.00 budget - so the fog machine probobly won't even happen. Maybe some dry ice would be cheaper?. I'm just trying to get a little bit of experience in shooting and editing. If I'm not able to do the beams in light.. MAYBE I'll be able to do it in post. I'm not sure. I'm going to give it a shot. I'm still working on my "story". I think I'm going to get going on that a bit. Thanks guys!

-Jeff
 
GenJerDan said:
Unbleached flour.

Or bleached flour, for that matter, but it sounds like you want it a little brown....
Click to expand...


You could use this method to create a track matte/alpha channel to reveal a background color of whatever you wanted. Just shoot it against a black background. That way you could not only have the dust be whatever color you wanted, but you could use Levels/Curves/Contrast to better define the matte in a video editor. In other words, crappy footage that can't stand on its own as an element can be used to create one.


Sawdust is explosive, especially if you are using treated wood, plywood, or wood products of that nature. Even corn silos can explode.

But . . .

Of course you need a lot and a large area to house the dust and the correct dust to air ratio, but I like to play devil's advocate sometimes. :evil:


EDIT:

Oh, and a sillouette in a doorway could be faked with a cardbaord cut out moved in front of the light source. And, yes, it does work.
 
haha.. yes, that's true. Though I don't think there's too much to worry about a few handfulls of sawdust/flour. Otherwise bags of flour would have "WARNING: EXPLOSIVE".. hahaha... but yeah anyway.. thanks everyone.

Rapier - You have me an idea. I might be able to shoot the silhouette as a seperate shot from the shed door opening. I could green screen the door and layer him in there. I've never done that.. but... it might be worth a shot.

Somewhat off of the subject - Can I use any green material as long as there arent any other similar colored objects in the shot? Basically - In after effects I can sample that color, and it will automatically remove the green color?.. I know it's more complicated than that, and of course alot of things will clean up the edges, but overall, that's about it? right? well anyway.. thanks I'm going to work on a few things. Thanks man. I'll talk to you guys later. Thanks everyone for your help!

-Jeff
 
Bags of flour don't have warning labels because most people don't suspend the flour in the air.

But anything flammable, finely divided and suspended in air, will give you what is essentially a fuel-air bomb.
 
jeff jassky said:
haha.. yes, that's true. Though I don't think there's too much to worry about a few handfulls of sawdust/flour. Otherwise bags of flour would have "WARNING: EXPLOSIVE".. hahaha... but yeah anyway.. thanks everyone.

Rapier - You have me an idea. I might be able to shoot the silhouette as a seperate shot from the shed door opening. I could green screen the door and layer him in there. I've never done that.. but... it might be worth a shot.

Somewhat off of the subject - Can I use any green material as long as there arent any other similar colored objects in the shot? Basically - In after effects I can sample that color, and it will automatically remove the green color?.. I know it's more complicated than that, and of course alot of things will clean up the edges, but overall, that's about it? right? well anyway.. thanks I'm going to work on a few things. Thanks man. I'll talk to you guys later. Thanks everyone for your help!

-Jeff
Click to expand...

unless you are doing something very special, you don't need to greenscreen for a shadow. Since you can use blending modes like Multiply, you can shoot against a white sheet and simply by setting your blending mode accordingly, it will "key" out the white.

If the scene is a simple one as far as composition, you can also have someone reproduce it in 3D, and use that (either by camera tracking or something of the like) to create the element on a white background, and then composite that in.
 
sawdust is NOT EXPLOSIVE!!!!!!!!! I've tossed saw dust directly onto FIRE. It is not explosive, people!!

corn in a silo is an entirely different matter and it's not the corn that's explosive, it's the gas builds ups from the organic decomposition of the corn. sawdust doesn't do that.
 
Wrong.

It's not a gas build-up, it's the particles suspended in the air: corn dust, saw dust, flour, gasoline...it doesn't matter much, except in degree.

All an "explosion" is is an extremely rapid combustion.

See here: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/fae.htm

"And every year, many serious explosions and fires occur in industrial plants as a result of dust. Many materials form dust clouds that can easily ignite and explode, injuring personnel and damaging plant. This is a well-known phenomenon in the coal mining, grain storage, and the woodworking and paper industries. Many miners have been killed and injured and massive production losses have resulted from coal dust explosions in underground coal mining operations. Of the 129 grain dust explosions that occurred nationwide between 1987 and 1997, about half involved corn. Eleven were caused by wheat dust and 10 by dust from soybeans. Billions of tiny, highly combustible particles of grain are generated by grain kernels rubbing together as they move along conveyer belts and shifted between bins. Inside the enclosed chambers, those particles rise in a cloud. When the dust gets in with the right mixture of oxygen and comes in contact with a spark or even an overheated bearing on a conveyer belt, it is extremely explosive.


Almost all organic material in the form of a dust cloud will ignite at temperatures below 500 oC - approximately the same temperature as a newly extinguished match. Cotton, plastics and foodstuffs such as sugar, flour and cocoa can also, under the right conditions, act as explosives. . ."
 
right.. you would need a perfect air/dust mixture throught the entire "Explosive" area. If it's too dense with dust, it won't explode.. and if it's too dense with air it won't explode.... anyway..


This topic has reached its prime and I think we can consider it closed :)

Thanks everyone for your help. My little "story" thing is almost finished up..

It's about a guy with OCD that needs to fix his leaky water spigot. It it actually pans out I'll post a link on this thread when it's done.

Thanks guys!

- Jeff
 
another non flame compund is FULLERS EARTH but try not to breath this stuff .
I did on a war movie and it stays in the throat and lung passages for a while .
Another choice is rice powder which may be flammable .
Good Luck '
and from the sound of all submissions here
DO A SAFTEY TEST AND A CAMERA TEST .
unles you want traumatic CINEMA VERATE '
Cheers
Bruce
 
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