Crap, the Bean Counters are going to screw us again!

[Paul F]

Good Eric. I get what your saying and I agree with it. I was thinking that other crew's demise is your future potential demise and so one should be concerned as to the shrinking of budgets & crew and where that leaves all of us. But hey, as Drift said, adapt or die.

 

[Guest]

I said the proverbial mail room. I know. Let's put it in car terms. It's like the guy that starts out on the car lot washing cars. That's where you start and work your way up. I wonder if there are mail rooms anymore.

I often use the mail room example because of a guy I know that had his masters degree and really was in the mail room for years. He eventually moved up one step doing transfers. Meanwhile, two interns got jobs right away with the editors and 10 years later, one of them had an Oscar. It's funny how that is. Two people. The same place. One climbs quickly, the other stagnates.

Yeah, few people have it all working for them. The inherent behavior, the talent/skills, the connections, the luck, the drive. If one of those things doesn’t pan out it can lead to what looks like stagnation.


And i knew you were just talking about the mail box in the proverbial sense, i was just trying to be funny. Also, i would like to work any where stable right now. So, it was a two fer.

 

[Paul F]

Yea, I was out in the yard doing some work and I realized how bad I misread your post. Then I came back to see it's too late to edit it.

 

[ahalpert]

I don't believe in pessimism or optimism, I believe in realism. Our attitude has no influence on circumstances beyond our control. But growing our understanding of those circumstances helps us adapt and survive.

As Sun Tzu wrote in the Art of War, the general who makes the most calculations is usually victorious.

The WSJ article is a data point. Eric's experience is another data point.

 

[Guest]

I don't believe in pessimism or optimism, I believe in realism. Our attitude has no influence on circumstances beyond our control. But growing our understanding of those circumstances helps us adapt and survive.

As Sun Tzu wrote in the Art of War, the general who makes the most calculations is usually victorious.

The WSJ article is a data point. Eric's experience is another data point.

Also, thanks for your thoughtful reply on the other? thread. It was long, but well said. I figure you have things under control, and discussing cameras is just an exercise. It is a great time to have these deep discussions on choices for two reasons. 1: we have the time. this pandemic has been a forced hiatus, and we have the luxury of mulling over these choices.. well for months. Who not better to discuss with than ye ole fellow dvx'ers? and 2: We have seemingly crossed a new threshold in tech, with much higher specs being the norm, and actually prices coming down a bit. SO, lot's of moving parts and a sort of next step up, and it is worth considering more variables than previous choices. Perhaps any camera will do, and perhaps there are opportunities in the recent tools announced.

 

[ahalpert]

Also, thanks for your thoughtful reply on the other? thread. It was long, but well said. I figure you have things under control, and discussing cameras is just an exercise. It is a great time to have these deep discussions on choices for two reasons. 1: we have the time. this pandemic has been a forced hiatus, and we have the luxury of mulling over these choices.. well for months. Who not better to discuss with than ye ole fellow dvx'ers? and 2: We have seemingly crossed a new threshold in tech, with much higher specs being the norm, and actually prices coming down a bit. SO, lot's of moving parts and a sort of next step up, and it is worth considering more variables than previous choices. Perhaps any camera will do, and perhaps there are opportunities in the recent tools announced.

Thanks for saying so, James! No one replied to me, but I hoped it was just because I said too much.

The truth is i dont think i always make the best business decision when purchasing cameras. I should have bought an FS7 years ago when all my buddies did, but i thought people would continue to prefer Canon color.

So, now all this external processing and discussion is a way of second-guessing myself and seeing what others think.

If i just had go figure out MY personal preference, it would be easy. But like Drift says, it's a business first!

 

[puredrifting]

As a attempt to inject some positivity into the discussion, I
will say, having all my next 4 months worth of work disappear at the
start of March was pretty tough. And then all the events happening
from quarantine to police brutality, to riots and looting.....it has not
been a good time and negativity has been everywhere you look,
I've pretty much just turned off any TV news.

In the midst of all this, I received a call about 10 days ago. It
was for a little show called 'Returning the Favor.' I'd never heard
of it. But it features Mike Rowe as he travels the country to find
people doing good things in their communities, whereby he surprises
them with a big gift....thereby 'Returning the Favor.' This show is
sponsored by Facebook and only 'airs' on Facebook as far as I know.
However, in light of the quarantine, he had put the show on hiatus.
After the country began slowly reopening, he apparently decided to
try and do 'quarantine' editions of the show, (RTF @ home.) So he
finds a worthy recipient (he has a Facebook page where people can
nominate those in their community) hires crew in the location which
he wants to 'return the favor' has them shoot a 'package' about the
community and what the recipient is doing for it, and then he himself
will jump on a Zoom call with the recipient. He then does the 'big
reveal' which is shot by his on location crew. Yes this show integrates
'Zoom calls' and iPhone footage with professionally shot footage.
Anyways, I was called and they wanted to do an episode in a location near me.
I was hired and asked to find two other crew members. So this was a 3 person
crew job. Normal industry day rates for everyone. Because both other people
I found were camera ops, I left most of the shooting to them and I did the
drone video work, DIT duties, and filled in with a little regular camera work,
mostly gimbal stuff. Kind of the 'on location' producer. Not only did this
job pay a normal rate for 3 of us, but during the midst of current events,
it did my heart good to work on a show which is focused on recognizing
the good that people do for each other. Now, one of my favorite shows....
and it airs on Facebook?

If you are interested....I posted our episode
below. Mike has some 'preview' segments which last for about
4:00 so our stuff gets going about 4:15 in. Interestingly, I
have received about 6 calls for work in the few days since this
aired. Are things starting to pick back up? I'm not sure. But
I do know, this was one of my favorite jobs I have ever worked
on. Yeah, the industry is changing. Facebook and web based
videos instead of 'broadcast segments.' 'Good enough' work with
smaller crews. But we still each had a four figure day rate on this
job so even in this new world, there might be a place for us. I'm
going to choose to be optimistic.....like Mike Rowe......and look for
the good in the world.

https://www.facebook.com/ReturningTheFavor/videos/611657783079823/

Super cool, I am a huge fan of Mike, he should be in an elected office, he has far too much common sense to be wasting it in entertainment.
That sounds like a very uplifiting job, I am glad they called you.

 

[alaskacameradude]

Super cool, I am a huge fan of Mike, he should be in an elected office, he has far too much common sense to be wasting it in entertainment.
That sounds like a very uplifiting job, I am glad they called you.

Super people ....everyone from the producers to the editors
on down the line. I only interacted with them via conference calls and
email but seriously some of the nicest people ever. And I agree about Mike,
just a great guy!

Have you seen any work coming back yet? I am starting to see glimmers
but guessing it depends on how much each state has opened up? We were
lucky and haven't had many cases, but it seems like a lot of states are opening
up now. Either because they have secured the necessary medical equipment
(which was previously in short supply) or in sheer desperation to get their economy
going again. This job was a little interesting for a couple reasons. One was that
we were venturing into a very isolated community...pretty much a closed community.
They have not had a single case of the virus, and so, they view any outsiders at all
with.....hesitation might be the best word. Not that anyone is mean because they
are very friendly and helpful, but they do NOT want anyone bringing the
virus to them. Of course it doesn't hurt that we have almost no cases in our town either,
but still, it was a little strange. We all wore masks and gloves for the entire day,
used shotgun mics on a boom for interview, no lavs, appropriate social distancing,
cleaning wipes for the gear, all the precautions we could think of. Just trying
to show respect for everyone around us and show that we were serious about
protecting them. This virus has definitely made for new things to think about while
working!

 

[JPNola]

I don't believe in pessimism or optimism, I believe in realism.

Here's some realism:

If you're on one of my jobs being pessimistic and whining that the industry has gone to crap, I ain't hiring you again if I can avoid it.


Attitude has huge influence on your success and ability to obtain work.

"I don't believe in pessimism or optimism, I believe in realism." That's fortune cookie nonsense.

 

[ahalpert]

Here's some realism:

If you're on one of my jobs being pessimistic and whining that the industry has gone to crap, I ain't hiring you again if I can avoid it.


Attitude has huge influence on your success and ability to obtain work.

"I don't believe in pessimism or optimism, I believe in realism." That's fortune cookie nonsense.

Haha if you hire me, I will remember to keep a cheery disposition.

Client handling/relations is within our control. In that regard, your attitude is hugely important. It also makes an impact on your enthusiasm and work ethic.

What I meant is that some on this forum can act like, "Don't talk about work going away - you'll hasten the end!"

Our predictions made in this forum have no bearing on the direction of the industry.

"Pessimism" and "optimism" are both biased frameworks and therefore bound to be wrong some of the time. People get lazy when they make huge inferences based on limited data.

By being "realist" I simply mean examining all the facts available and trying to make honest and accurate predictions. In this case, I believe that some types of shooting will disappear, others will thrive, some will morph. Producers may always be needed just as corporate managers may always be needed to plan strategy and oversee AI even after human employees are replaced.

The type of shooting Eric is doing for Discovery will probably still be just as needed. The type of shooting they're talking about replacing is more formulaic and repeatable stuff that happens in the same location each day.

 

[Guest]

Haha if you hire me, I will remember to keep a cheery disposition.

Is he working right now though? I thought that is what we were saying, no one is working, and we have to start finding ways to make things work. Likely other parts of the country are opening up. Like middle America and the South, but LA and NYC will probably be the last to open. So, we should start seeing People getting back to work outside the bigger cities. China has already started opening up, and I see friends in Europe going to parties and working out and shooting for work.

I'm seeing young people shooting music videos. Actually one of them was amazing, and they were using a BMPCC6K or something. looked awesome! (they are also shooting on RED's and ARRI's). So, I know people are doing stuff, but it is like one gig a month sort of pace right now.

The reality is that things are not ideal right now. Will take time, and awe need to be able to relate to each other about those struggles, because no one else understands. WE LOVE TO WORK. That is why we are doing what we do. But when we aren't working, or the WSJ starts writing stories about how the camera operator might be used a little less going forward.... let's talk about it. Let's discuss whether that is true or not. Right now, it is all too true. Later when things open up? That is what we have to hopefully be ready for.

 

[High1ander]

Regarding the quality of viewership numbers, I wonder how intently people watch anything these days. So much multitasking in younger peoples' lives. Selling to 40 and younger is not as easy as before. They decide when they will be marketed to and eventually purchase. Does a YouTube hit count as much as a television hit? I would think not but maybe in 10 years it will.

Regarding sports quality and any quality, in general we are in the glory days of quality. Sad that things are falling apart because most everything you see looks great. Sports coverage has really evolved but at some point, the big cable contracts that pay all of the huge salaries are going to dry up. An adjustment will be made and life will go on right? 80 camera shoots with POV might be the norm. ESPN OMBs!

Fun and sad to talk about...

It is so much easier to have commercials online and see how effective it is compared to TV ads. Most internet ads will literally include in the link where the "click" came from, so you can see that 40% of your customers show up thru facebook ads or 10% thru google. But good luck getting that info from TV ads, nobody goes to your store and/or website and says "I saw your TV ad" so really hard to track those people even if TV is effective, since it is just no easy way to get feedback. This is one major reason why a lot of TV is bleeding, it is because the marketing money from ads is being diverted online instead of TV...

 

[Liam Hall]

Yesterday, client asks if I can direct a series of spots via the internet with the contributor filming themselves on iPhone. They were swiftly, but politely, told to jog on. Second client calls, books me for a job next week, asks for a special rate, which I give them. Oh how we laugh when I call it a Covid rate. Client confirms the job, and cancels this morning. No cancellation fee. It was a really sh!tty job, yet I still felt bad for losing out since nearly everything has been cancelled in the last three months. I've spent most of today trying to work out if I can do the 10 country shoot that I'm booked for in July/August. Short answer, no - not unless someone produces a vaccine in the next couple of weeks. So, definitely, a no.

It's going to be a long time before anything approaching normal returns our Industry. Hang in there, everyone. Oh, and depending on your location I might need some help with a global shoot!

 

[Run&Gun]

ESPN OMBs!

If only you knew...

 

[Run&Gun]

It is so much easier to have commercials online and see how effective it is compared to TV ads. Most internet ads will literally include in the link where the "click" came from, so you can see that 40% of your customers show up thru facebook ads or 10% thru google. But good luck getting that info from TV ads, nobody goes to your store and/or website and says "I saw your TV ad" so really hard to track those people even if TV is effective, since it is just no easy way to get feedback. This is one major reason why a lot of TV is bleeding, it is because the marketing money from ads is being diverted online instead of TV...

And the really good creative ads are online only, for multiple reasons. I’ve run across some of the “long form” commercials leading into YouTube videos and I’ve actually gone and looked up the commercials, on YouTube, after watching them, to watch them again, because I found them that entertaining.