Crap, the Bean Counters are going to screw us again!

[ahalpert]

Of course, Gable was quite famous, having already been on "Keeping up with the Gables" and the "House Husbands of Beverly Hills".

That's fricking funny.

I love it happened one night. Amazing that he was that influential even before Gone with the Wind. Great performer.

Incidentally, after I saw Die Hard in high school, I wore wife beaters for like the next 3 years

And after I saw cool hand luke, I started eating hard boiled eggs by the handful

 

[Paul F]

... Too bad, I feel that celebrity worship is completely detrimental
to society as a whole, it's just one more sign of people succumbing to the brainwash of mass media. Celebrities tell people where to live, how to live, how to vote, what they should be socially conscious about. I don't blame celebrities, they're just cashing in, but the people
who actually care about and follow what these people say and do, I don't get it. It's probably because I have worked with so many actors, writers, directors and celebrities over the years, most of them are clinically insane but very successful. The last people you should listen
to for advice about how to live your life. But people, do, by the billions.

You can't blame people. Hollywood makes it look oh so glamorous. I wish the whole world could spend a few days with the celebrities they adore to see how neurotic and un-extraordinary they are. Jerry sums it up so well for me at 3:19 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F3pJfmqnUM

 

[Mitch Gross]

If Discovery shows look like YouTube blogger shows, then why will people bother to tune into the controlled scheduling of Discovery instead of YouTube? They can probably get away with reduced crews on some programs and maybe even automated cameras on others, but people will tire of this eventually and viewership will drop. And then those productions will again rise in quality.

Remember NBC's experiment to put Lemo on at 10pm and fill as much of the rest of its primetime schedule as possible with low cost reality programming? It was disastrous for the network on multiple levels and was quickly abandoned.

 

[puredrifting]

You can't blame people. Hollywood makes it look oh so glamorous. I wish the whole world could spend a few days with the celebrities they adore to see how neurotic and un-extraordinary they are. Jerry sums it up so well for me at 3:19 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F3pJfmqnUM

That's my problem, I do blame people. Anyone with even below average IQ can look at what mass media is feeding them and divine that it's all bovine excrement. Celebrities are like everyone else, there are a few who are truly wonderful people
and great human beings but the majority are egocentric sociopaths who happened to be at the right place at the right time and worked hard. And that's fine, more power to them. But to actually listen to what they say in real life and let your psyche
be shaped by them, OMG, that's insane.

If you let Hollywood tell you how you should live your life, what's actually important, then you've missed the point of life.

 

[groveChuck]

That's my problem, I do blame people.

People are strange.
People are stupid.

 

[stewhem]

That's my problem, I do blame people. Anyone with even below average IQ can look at what mass media is feeding them and divine that it's all bovine excrement. Celebrities are like everyone else, there are a few who are truly wonderful people
and great human beings but the majority are egocentric sociopaths who happened to be at the right place at the right time and worked hard. And that's fine, more power to them. But to actually listen to what they say in real life and let your psyche
be shaped by them, OMG, that's insane.

If you let Hollywood tell you how you should live your life, what's actually important, then you've missed the point of life.

As someone who has also worked with quite a few celebs, I couldn't agree more. This is spot on, puredrifting.

 

[puredrifting]

As someone who has also worked with quite a few celebs, I couldn't agree more. This is spot on, puredrifting.

I liken Hollywood to the cheap rides that came to the local Knights of Columbus or the County Fair, the actors are the like the Carnies. Fine for a night or two of cheap fun
taking your life into your own hands since you don't know if the rides are even safe, but you wouldn't want to take life advice or pattern your life plan around the advice of the Carnies.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

I'm shooting for Investigation Discovery tomorrow, owned by Discovery. They have a set of Coronavirus safety measures. Myself and a sound guy as crew with a C300 Mark II. This has been a relatively busy week for me with shoots that have nothing to do with the Coronavirus. I'm personally not a fan of all the doom and gloom talk on DVXuser, whether it's true or not. I guess if doom and gloom talk helps one to seek other business methods or opportunities as a result then it can be beneficial, but otherwise it really just brings down people's spirits without helping.


If a celebrity recommends something that they're famous for, like the Rock recommending a workout routine, Jackie Chan giving fighting tips, Margot Robbie giving beauty and fashion tips, Philip Bloom recommending equipment, Roger Deakins recommending Arri, etc., I really don't see a problem with any of that. These people became famous for those things so likely have some truly useful knowledge and advice on the matter, with more credibility than just a regular Joe would likely have since the regular Joe did not become famous for their knowledge on the subject.

 

[Guest]

...but otherwise it really just brings down people's spirits without helping.

Semi ironic statement. As there is just a negative statement with out a solution, but also just blaming the members of the community. I try to direct that negativity towards the manufacturers that try to get every last possible dollar out of us, even in light of the industry and times changing. Even the "saviour" Black Magic can be a little puzzling. Was at a trade show where a colleague was talking to the owner of BM, and offering a suggestion to one of the cameras, and the owner snapped "they get what I give them!" and turned away. Ok, cool. They don't really see us as anything but a dollar sign.

However, I don't think your comment needed to be down voted, and so I upvoted it. Because, yeah, we get gloomy and occasionally need to be reminded to stay proactive.

If a celebrity recommends something that they're famous for, like the Rock recommending a workout routine, Jackie Chan giving fighting tips, Margot Robbie giving beauty and fashion tips, Philip Bloom recommending equipment, Roger Deakins recommending Arri, etc., I really don't see a problem with any of that. These people became famous for those things so likely have some truly useful knowledge and advice on the matter, with more credibility than just a regular Joe would likely have since the regular Joe did not become famous for their knowledge on the subject.

That makes them even more dangerous, as it makes them seem even more credible. It is easy for people to say Fincher or Holland are shills for RED, but somehow Deakins is just honestly using Arri Alexa? No doubt, the Alexa is currently one of the best cameras, and certainly the best in cinema, but just making the point that, not all celebs are craftspeople, or dedicated to the same ideals we maybe should or initially wanted to hold. It isn't clear if the Rock's life is even healthy to live at that extreme. Certainly not if we don't have all the support and income he has.

There are celebs that represent good, but most do not. Most represent a highly consumeristic life style that permeates and influences our culture. And I think sometimes the good that these celebs promote is not necessarily that they are good people and visa versa. A celeb can be a bad person and still ask for people to pollute and consume less. (as they jet around and own energy hungry homes, albeit).

But, Eric, to your point about the negativity on the boards, in particularly lately, I feel that. But we are currently in a pandemic and watching are colleagues go without income or income assistance, while the powers that be are talking about cutting jobs. It is good for people to be able to vent concerns. And we will start looking towards solutions more and more. Already, I see a lot of people here helping others with questions. Total strangers. people with 2 posts come in and ask a random question, and within hours, sometimes minutes, that person gets help, for free. There is still a lot of good on these boards.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Semi ironic statement. As there is just a negative statement with out a solution, but also just blaming the members of the community.

The solution is obvious so I shouldn't have had to spell it out. The solution is to reduce posting posts full of negativity regarding the virus affecting business. I'm not saying we can't talk about it, but one example is someone having posted an entire topic to inform everyone they knew someone who committed suicide as a result of losing their job from the virus. I really don't see how posts like those are helpful on a video production forum. I think John Krasinki has been on to something good with his channel, "Some Good News," which focuses on good news going on amidst the pandemic.

Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about anything negative, but perhaps toning it down is not the worst idea. And if we are going to talk about it, to keep it factual, such as stating our own experiences of having lost business, rather than articles theorizing a dim future.

In this particular case, a topic about how Discovery is having people do amateur shoots from home and cutting out crew, when I've coincidentally just been hired with a good rate for a Discovery shoot, which contradicts the negativity of this entire topic. Yeah, just one shoot, but still. Accurate negativity can be helpful in showing people how to react to the given situation, but exaggerated negativity that is not factual is detrimental. Imagine if someone whose number one client was Discovery read that article, and then decided to sell their camera for fear they won't be making income in the coming months, and then that article proved to be mostly wrong, and ended up negatively affecting their income or ruining their career.

I'd rather see more posts of people talking about the recent jobs they've done despite the pandemic, rather than more posts of articles saying, "This is how our industry will be forever changed," which is mostly just silly pessimistic theories with little to no backing. I've read multiple of these dumb articles and I feel in many cases they're just wrong, even if only time will tell the truth. The media has always thrived on sensationalism through negativity because negativity gets more attention than positivity, but I don't see the need to be excessively feeding that here. Dan has posted some more helpful posts showing how he has used streaming to get business during the pandemic. Those posts are both positive and helpful.

One of my co-workers earlier on in the pandemic kept sending me Ebay listings of Amiras going cheaply implying there was going to be a fire-sale of equipment and no busiess for the equipment so I should sell my Amira before it had lost too much of its value, and since I didn't really have plans to sell my Amira and had more optimism than him as far as how business would go with the virus, I just found his messages to be annoying. And sure enough, business has picked back up for me compared to then and the price of used equipment has so far not really plummeted as many theorized it would (even if there have been some relatively good used deals), so he was basically wrong and the negativity was not appreciated.


As a note, since I don't have a Wall Street Journal subscription, I cannot read that article, so I'm just going off of what Dan summarized. Also of note, I recently had been officially booked for a shoot for the Wall Street Journal and then at the last minute they removed me from the shoot for someone else to shoot it without good reason and refused to pay a cancellation fee, so I'm not really their biggest fan.

 

[Paul F]

The fact is that the business has been augering downward for many years. While there has been the fortune of having much more work than ever before (scripted projects), on the whole, the community is suffering in all aspects. Smaller crews, lower rates, fiercer competition. The facts are that the business continues to erode how we operate and there is no doubt the pandemic helped producers find ways to do things even cheaper with less crew. Sure, business will come back; but back to what? We can all have happy talk on the forum and ignore current events. But I'd rather discuss the matters at hand and hear others thoughts on the topic.

This has been hopefully, a once in a lifetime event. It's not to be ignored, but discussed at length for all the good and bad it has caused.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

The smaller crew aspect of the pandemic has actually been a boon for a one-man-band advocate such as myself. Now I have clients contacting me saying, "We like how your website says you can work as a one-man-band because we want to keep the crew as small as possible for the sake of social distancing." And as I've said before, since they're now not putting that additional budget toward crew, they now can more easily afford to pay higher rates to me or pay for me to provide higher end equipment as a one-man-band.

Considering most DVXusers are DPs and videographers, the most important role in a small production, I don't see how smaller crew is really going to negatively affect us financially. If I was a sound professional, AC, gaffer, PA, grip, etc., who had often worked on small productions, then I'd be much more concerned about crew cut backs as those are less necessary positions for small shoots. But the only way to cut out the DP/videographer is to turn the shoot into a self shot amateur shoot, which I'd say most productions are not going that far in terms of social distancing.

 

[Paul F]

Wow! "I'm getting mine. Screw the rest of you." is what I read in that. OMB means that a second camera operator is no longer needed. You don't care about the rest of the crew and community in general? As long as you get yours? But you've been reduced to an OMB. What happens when OMB is replaced by an iPhone and that kid in the mail room?

 

[JPNola]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/discov...ng-on-low-budget-quarantine-shows-11591311803

We all knew this was coming but to actually see it in the WSJ is depressing.
This is all corporate speak for "For as many of our shows as we can get away
with, we're going to be doing as much talent self shooting from home
as possible to save as much as possible."

If you are a regular Discovery Network shooter or sound mixer, this ain't good news at all.

Love the shot of the Go Pro atop a Sachtler Video 18 or something larger.

Anyone want to join me in live streaming Cat Videos and ASMR content with Influencers? ;-) It's the future.

Watch out for the cynicism / pessimism, gang. The sky is not falling.

Cynicism can be a career killer. I have a couple of guys I only use when desperate because they both fall into griping and the "things are no longer how they used to be, everything has gone to crap" stuff that I don't need on my sets and clients don't need or want on their sets.

Someone will always be making good money in production, regardless of how things evolve. If you are getting pinched where you are at, evolve. Make a move. But keep positive.

 

[Guest]

mail room?

What mail room. You guys have a mail room? Does it pay? Can I work there?

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Wow! "I'm getting mine. Screw the rest of you." is what I read in that. OMB means that a second camera operator is no longer needed. You don't care about the rest of the crew and community in general? As long as you get yours? But you've been reduced to an OMB. What happens when OMB is replaced by an iPhone and that kid in the mail room?

So what, as DPs/videographers we're now supposed to lament about other positions, jobs, and industries that do not affect our income? As a poster of DVXuser, I'm a heartless human being if I don't actively put in my posts condolences to the Taxi drivers who have lost jobs to Uber, the Blockbuster employees and owners who lost their jobs, the cable TV networks who are losing income, etc., when these outdated business models do not really affect my job?

I hire independent contractors for crew here and there, but as I don't have any full time employees I've never considered it my responsibility to keep food on these people's plates; I'm just one of their many clients and give them occasional jobs when they come my way, with my work for them perhaps equating to .5-10% of their income for the year. If the work dries up for them, then like the Blockbuster employees, they'll have to seek out new methods of income, and the same goes for DPs and videographers if we were to all be replaced by iPhone shooters. Industries changing and people adapting is really nothing new here. I personally don't think DPs will be replaced with AI or iPhone kids at the higher end before I retire in 30-40 years, so I'm not too concerned, but if that were to happen, then I'd be forced to adapt. Perhaps I'd become a producer or writer or find an entirely different career.

I don't see why I should feel sad when unnecessary crew are no longer considered necessary. It would be a different story if they were eliminating crew members that I as a DP felt were necessary to do a good job, but that is not the case that I've been experiencing. I would not want to shoot a feature film as a one-man-band, but I can sure as heck shoot an interview as a one-man-band.

No second camera operator again means more money for me because I can now up-charge equipment more since there is no second camera operator to pay. I've done two and three camera shoots many times before as a one-man-band. Like, hundreds of times. As for me missing out on getting positions as a secondary camera op, in most cases I don't really want those positions anyway. If a person regularly works as a secondary camera op is now out of work due to social distancing with smaller crews, then they'll need to adapt and learn to become a primary camera op or find some other position. I'm not just going to sit around feeling sorry for people not willing to adapt to changing markets. If the former Blockbuster employee is still living in their Mom's basement after 10 years of unemployment, I won't feel sorry for them because that's the result of their laziness in not trying to find a new job.

But yeah, most people who work jobs think of it like, "I've got mine so if you're unemployed that is not my problem." But if you're really feeling charitable, nothing is stopping you from giving a large portion of your income as a donation to those who are unemployed, or taking steps to help them find work in a new field with more opportunities.

 

[puredrifting]

I don't think my original post is pessimistic, it's factual. I've been in the business long enough to have seen several waves of this. In this, Eric and I agree, adapt or die. I look at the story more as a producer, producers are always going to try to do things as cheaply as possible
so they can make more money. It was the same when camera standard ISOs went from 250-400 to 800-2000 with the popularity of the FS7. Producers didn't see it as a technical boon, they saw it as, "Hot damn, I can rent a far smaller and cheaper lighting package which nets
me more in my pocket."

I've been spending some time on the JW Sound boards and the general feeling over there seems to be a bit more pessimistic than here, especially when people chime in about how 32-bit, the new Sound Devices NR plug-in and various other technologies
are literally putting them out of work. It's legit, some of those technologies are putting them out of work. Who needs to have a sound mixer monitor levels when you literally cannot overmodulate the recording? (Albeit you can definitely overdrive the mics
themselves, still resulting in a distorted recording).

I'm doing a shoot this week, two days, it will be me as DP/director, I have a friend doing teleprompter and my gaffer to help me light it all up. That's it. No Sound Mixer, no PAs, no grips, hair & makeup. The client simply won't
give me budget to hire those positions. This kind of thing has permeated the business for about the past 15 years, what's happening with networks cheaping out isn't new, but it is a bit surprising that Discovery Communications went so
public that they want to butcher production costs. Probably a PR move to reassure nervous stockholders. Once a company is public, they are completely beholden to just their shareholders, they often have to do things that they may not
want to internally to pacify the market. I'm sure that with cord cutting, they have been bleeding viewers like crazy the past few years.

I have always looked at DVXUser as a place where we all can talk about things, learn from each other and hopefully formulate plans of action for our businesses. If we can only discuss shiny, happy, positive things, than I see little business value
to discussing things here because it's necessary for all of us to be planning our next moves. Being complacent right now with faith that things are just going to resume how they
were seems naive to me, it's a sea change we're going through. Guess there is always LA Producer Group.

 

[alaskacameradude]

That's my problem, I do blame people. Anyone with even below average IQ can look at what mass media is feeding them and divine that it's all bovine excrement. Celebrities are like everyone else, there are a few who are truly wonderful people
and great human beings but the majority are egocentric sociopaths who happened to be at the right place at the right time and worked hard. And that's fine, more power to them. But to actually listen to what they say in real life and let your psyche
be shaped by them, OMG, that's insane.

If you let Hollywood tell you how you should live your life, what's actually important, then you've missed the point of life.

Not to get political in any way but last election there was a pretty funny video
that made the rounds. It was in response to a video made by a bunch of
Hollywood celebrities who were urging people to vote a certain way. The
response video basically copied the Hollywood video but instead of celebrities
it just had normal people sarcastically 'thanking' Hollywood for 'helping' them
to 'understand' the issues so they could 'know how to vote.' I couldn't agree
more with Puredrifting's sentiment. From telling the 'uneducated masses'
what to buy, how to act, how to feel, how to vote, how to live (when they
themselves often ignore the advice they give.....'do as I say, not as I do')
the elitism is thick with that Hollywood crowd.

 

[alaskacameradude]

As a attempt to inject some positivity into the discussion, I
will say, having all my next 4 months worth of work disappear at the
start of March was pretty tough. And then all the events happening
from quarantine to police brutality, to riots and looting.....it has not
been a good time and negativity has been everywhere you look,
I've pretty much just turned off any TV news.

In the midst of all this, I received a call about 10 days ago. It
was for a little show called 'Returning the Favor.' I'd never heard
of it. But it features Mike Rowe as he travels the country to find
people doing good things in their communities, whereby he surprises
them with a big gift....thereby 'Returning the Favor.' This show is
sponsored by Facebook and only 'airs' on Facebook as far as I know.
However, in light of the quarantine, he had put the show on hiatus.
After the country began slowly reopening, he apparently decided to
try and do 'quarantine' editions of the show, (RTF @ home.) So he
finds a worthy recipient (he has a Facebook page where people can
nominate those in their community) hires crew in the location which
he wants to 'return the favor' has them shoot a 'package' about the
community and what the recipient is doing for it, and then he himself
will jump on a Zoom call with the recipient. He then does the 'big
reveal' which is shot by his on location crew. Yes this show integrates
'Zoom calls' and iPhone footage with professionally shot footage.
Anyways, I was called and they wanted to do an episode in a location near me.
I was hired and asked to find two other crew members. So this was a 3 person
crew job. Normal industry day rates for everyone. Because both other people
I found were camera ops, I left most of the shooting to them and I did the
drone video work, DIT duties, and filled in with a little regular camera work,
mostly gimbal stuff. Kind of the 'on location' producer. Not only did this
job pay a normal rate for 3 of us, but during the midst of current events,
it did my heart good to work on a show which is focused on recognizing
the good that people do for each other. Now, one of my favorite shows....
and it airs on Facebook?

If you are interested....I posted our episode
below. Mike has some 'preview' segments which last for about
4:00 so our stuff gets going about 4:15 in. Interestingly, I
have received about 6 calls for work in the few days since this
aired. Are things starting to pick back up? I'm not sure. But
I do know, this was one of my favorite jobs I have ever worked
on. Yeah, the industry is changing. Facebook and web based
videos instead of 'broadcast segments.' 'Good enough' work with
smaller crews. But we still each had a four figure day rate on this
job so even in this new world, there might be a place for us. I'm
going to choose to be optimistic.....like Mike Rowe......and look for
the good in the world.

https://www.facebook.com/ReturningTheFavor/videos/611657783079823/

 

[Paul F]

What mail room. You guys have a mail room? Does it pay? Can I work there?

I said the proverbial mail room. I know. Let's put it in car terms. It's like the guy that starts out on the car lot washing cars. That's where you start and work your way up. I wonder if there are mail rooms anymore.

I often use the mail room example because of a guy I know that had his masters degree and really was in the mail room for years. He eventually moved up one step doing transfers. Meanwhile, two interns got jobs right away with the editors and 10 years later, one of them had an Oscar. It's funny how that is. Two people. The same place. One climbs quickly, the other stagnates.