copyright question

S

siraj

Active member
hello guys, so basically im shooting a short film that features a jewellery box that plays the song "Beautiful Dreamer" by Stephen Foster - published in 1864.

so my question is whether or not it'd be illegal to use this in my film. it's not the actual song obviously, its a jewellery box version of it but i thought i'd make sure.

i know that because it is made prior a certain date - 1889 i think? - that it is legal, but can't somebody else copyright it? this is probably a stupid question but thanks for any answers. have a good day :)

*edit* also, sorry if this is in the wrong section of the forums.
 
A recording of a performance could be copyrighted...but so far as I can find a mechanical music box is not considered a recording, and its playback is not a performance...so you ought to be safe.
 
Bearing in mind, of course, that while I work a lot with copyright/clearance types, I am not one, myself...that's just my take.
 
Hmm... "Beautiful Dreamer" published in 1864. Okay, that's now public domain.

Music box manufactured prior to 1889. So that would put it well into public domain as well.

BUT, could you consider the music box as really just the instrument, and the *person turning the key* as the performer? Then does that person own the copyright to that performance?

(Just a stupid thought, not meant seriously...)
 
Well...the bumps on the music-box cylinder or disc are the 'recording medium.' But...they didn't record a performance; they were just manufactured according to a pattern that would produce the desired tune when rotated past the right sounding elements...
 
I've never heard of a music box manufacturer claiming copyright on their box's 'performance', but I suppose stranger things have happened :) Whether a music box is a 'recorded performance' is a fascinating philisophical question.

If you're really paranoid, perhaps you could get a musician to play the song on a synthesiser tweaked to sound like a music box?
 
If you're asking if someone else can come along and claim a new copyright on something that's been in the public domain, then no.
 
I think the question is more: can the manufacturer of the music box claim that their implementation of a device to play the tune equates to a new performance or recording to which they have rights?
 
clang said:
I've never heard of a music box manufacturer claiming copyright on their box's 'performance', but I suppose stranger things have happened :) Whether a music box is a 'recorded performance' is a fascinating philisophical question.

If you're really paranoid, perhaps you could get a musician to play the song on a synthesiser tweaked to sound like a music box?
Click to expand...


In the era when music boxes and player pianos were in vogue, the nuances we find in copyright law today, did not exist. Early films were 'printed' onto black&white rolls of narrow photo paper, then submitted for 'copyright registration' to protect them. As it is, because of the longevity of the printed rolls, in many cases we can reconstruct the film from scans, where the negatives and projection film prints have all disintegrated, or burned...

For most music, some form of performance has to 'take place'. So, if the original score, lyrics, etc. are copyrighted, and it is still valid, not onl does one have to pay the original composer/writer, but also whoever performs the work. In the case of a PD music score or lyrics, one need only pay (or get gratis...) for the performance.

Enter Garage Band... find a PD midi file... or whatever... or even find a online application that takes music scores to midi files... either yourself if you read/write music... or find someone who is taking music courses to do so...
 
well i was thinking of just using the tune from the jewellery box - rather than finding the actual song and garage banding it and all that...
 
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