Copy lighting from movies

O

Orangeday

Member
Hello,

its mostly only one frame. Even if the quality, the composition and everything else is kinda the same, there is difference I notice in the first second: is it a big cinema or a cheap televion production?
I think, mostly its the light.
And what really annoys me is, that I dont get it.
I watched so many tutorials and read articles and tried all the techniques by myself, but it doesent work.
How is it possible, to get the cinema lightning?
I want to post some screenshots of movies

http://i.imgur.com/vFaSXQg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WZnbbYQ.jpg
https://amufilm.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/2007_there_will_be_blood_003.jpg
https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/daniele-watts.jpg?w=670&h=377&crop=1

Can someone help me how these scenes are lightened?
Is there any possibility go get the lightning plans from big cinema productions?
 
Orangeday said:
Hello,

its mostly only one frame. Even if the quality, the composition and everything else is kinda the same, there is difference I notice in the first second: is it a big cinema or a cheap televion production?
I think, mostly its the light.
Click to expand...

Sometimes it's the lighting.

Sometimes it's art direction, shot composition, costuming, makeup, and all kinds of details apart from the lighting.

For the screenshots you posted, get the DVDs. Most DVDs have behind-the-scenes featurettes, and while they may not show you the lighting setups directly, there are almost always on-set shots where you can see the lighting being employed. (Rentals often don't have the extras, though.)

Read magazines like American Cinematographer, which often break down lighting of current movies.

Look for blogs by the cinematographers or other people involved in the films.

You can also try to figure out how things were lit by analyzing the shots themselves. Pay attention to the shadows -- where are they? What angle are they? That will tell you where light is coming from. Where are the bright spots? Are there bright spots? Are the shadows sharp or soft? That'll tell you about the types of equipment used.

Of course, determining how a shot was lit by looking at it is a lot easier if you have a familiarity with lighting already.
 
Ok, what doesn't work? What have you tried? What lighting elements do you have at your disposal? Have you tried creating big light sources by either bouncing off a wall or the ceiling or better something you can aim like one of those fold up white photographic reflectors or pushing through a 4 X 4 frame of grid cloth or silk? Big sources give you the beautiful light you seek.. big and close. David has given you the key to where to find out how the big productions work, American Cinematographer. Be advised, they have things at their disposal that you can't get but you can emulate their techniques on a smaller scale.

Talk about what you've done so far. Also Charles Pappert has a thread on his work in Key and Peele, right here on this site that will give you a world of information. Check that out, then go see the show to see how it all works.

Otherwise, get on some sets. PA, volunteer, do anything you can to get on sets and see how it's done.
 
You must give yourself a break. Many of those jpegs you posted are of work that was done by MASTERS of the craft.
They are some of the best of the best!
They spent years and years practicing and learning the art. So don't feel bad if it takes you a while.
trust me when I tell you that I have shot some CRAPPY looking stuff in my past!

And yes - you must find away to watch what the professionals do. Either in person, or instructional videos.
and then find a way to practice, practice, practice!

And don't forget to enjoy yourself along the way!
 
OK Orangeday, let's look EXACTLY at those 4 pictures you posted:
I see 4 things they all have in common.

1. = Soft light.
2. = Subject person is placed AWAY from walls and background.
3. = There are no big differences in light intensity across the frame.
4. = Color Restriction.


In depth:
1. SOFT LIGHT vs. HARD LIGHT
I don't know how much you know about this so here are 2 good YouTube videos that explain and show the difference. Watch now right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwv7WuJOCkU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKo8geTeG2E
Do you see how all the light in these 4 pictures is very "soft" light?

2. Subject AWAY from walls or background.
This often allows for the subject person to look more beautiful or more interesting, or at least more clear from the background.
Look at your last picture of the girl - the girl does not look special at all. One large soft light and not much else. Go put that picture in Photoshop and cut her out of the background and then put an ugly gray wall for the background - you'll see that they did not really do anything special on the girl, BUT they did do a lot of work to make a beautiful and interesting background behind her.

3. No big differences in light intensity across the frame.
Look all around each picture. Look for the brightest white - you will find there is almost NO very bright white. No bright lights either. Now look for the darkest blacks - not very much of those either, right? Everything is very balanced in these 4 shots.

4. Color Restriction.
What is this?
It means you only allow a small number of different colors to be in front of your lens in a scene. Look at each picture and notice - it's like they are just almost like only one color dominating each picture. Either mostly blue colors, or mostly brown/yellow colors. Each scene has many colors that ARE NOT THERE. See it now?
This is an artistic thing to do. You have to be like a painter and create a scene that uses color in a way that helps tell the story of that scene.

Now you see what I mean when I said "they are MASTERS".

The last part - Color Restriction - this is the most "artistic" thing about these 4 scenes, but the other 3 things are technical things that you can do too.

And remember - practice, practice, practice!
 
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hscully said:
Ok, what doesn't work? What have you tried? What lighting elements do you have at your disposal? Have you tried creating big light sources by either bouncing off a wall or the ceiling or better something you can aim like one of those fold up white photographic reflectors or pushing through a 4 X 4 frame of grid cloth or silk? Big sources give you the beautiful light you seek.. big and close. David has given you the key to where to find out how the big productions work, American Cinematographer. Be advised, they have things at their disposal that you can't get but you can emulate their techniques on a smaller scale.

Talk about what you've done so far. Also Charles Pappert has a thread on his work in Key and Peele, right here on this site that will give you a world of information. Check that out, then go see the show to see how it all works.

Otherwise, get on some sets. PA, volunteer, do anything you can to get on sets and see how it's done.
Click to expand...
I have to confess, that I work with cheap energy-saving and led lamps. I'm a student and I dont study something with movies, so my budget is very limited. if I wouldnt use the cheap stuff, I would suffer because I couldnt do anything. but right now I mainly want to learn how to set light, even if the light quality is not in a professional spectrum.
I got some light umberellas, 2 5in1 photography reflectors and three 40x40cm softboxes. overall I got 3 energy laving lamps and 2 led lights (YONGNUO YN-160, soon I will buy a YONGNUO YN-600).

DPStewart said:
OK Orangeday, let's look EXACTLY at those 4 pictures you posted:
I see 4 things they all have in common.

1. = Soft light.
2. = Subject person is placed AWAY from walls and background.
3. = There are no big differences in light intensity across the frame.
4. = Color Restriction.
Click to expand...
thanks, especially about the 4. part!
yes, I should really start to practice more.
the last 3 months I did 2 short movies, I hope that I can finish these the next days and show it here in the forum to get some advice.
right now I have a big problem to find actors, I hope that when I have a good short movie, it will be easier.
 
Orangeday said:
thanks for the correction
sorry, I'm not a native english speaker
Click to expand...
Thanks for your mature response. As someone who has spent some time learning other languages, let me just say that your original question was very easy to understand while there are a couple of technical mistakes in the use of English in there, you did an excellent job of conveying your question. I konw I certainly couldn't have asked such a detailed question in any of my alternate languages anywhere near as skillfully as you did!

Hopefully you will receive many excellent responses that will help you understand. Thanks to DPStewart and David Jimerson and hscully for their efforts to help, and I'm sure there will be more.
 
Orange,

One of the best examples I've seen of the difference in cinematic lighting and 'other' lighting is the television comedy '30 Rock'. I'm not saying it is a great example of cinematography (maybe it is, I'm no expert). But they normally shoot a 1 camera show. They once did a live show with multiple cameras and the look was dramatically different. It looked terrible. So there were the same sets, the same actors, the same show, but an entirely different look. If you get a chance, watch the live show and compare it to any other episode. You will see a dramatic difference, especially the scenes in Jack's office. The main differences are:

Exposure - the live show was bright. The one camera show has a much more muted exposure (the same as you see in the examples you provided). This adds a certain dramatic effect. In looks like a painting, not a snapshot.

Lighting - a live multi-camera show usually has lots of light aimed everywhere. A single camera show or film sets lights are used to sculpt a picture with shadows and highlights. You see this in the first 3 examples you've posted. Look at the subtle/soft light of the first shot. Imagine that if it was lit like a cooking show. The drama goes away. The second and third shot also have a subdued exposure. But they also have a variety of light and shadow in the foreground and background. This is how you paint a scene. Once again, imagine that any of those were shot with a bright, flat light or hard sources of light throughout the scene. The drama goes away and we are on the set of a cooking show.
 
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Barry_Green said:
Thanks for your mature response. As someone who has spent some time learning other languages, let me just say that your original question was very easy to understand while there are a couple of technical mistakes in the use of English in there, you did an excellent job of conveying your question. I konw I certainly couldn't have asked such a detailed question in any of my alternate languages anywhere near as skillfully as you did!

Hopefully you will receive many excellent responses that will help you understand. Thanks to DPStewart and David Jimerson and hscully for their efforts to help, and I'm sure there will be more.
Click to expand...

Personally I have no idea what he was trying to ask. I figured out he meant lighting instead of lightning, but beyond that... no idea.
 
Paul F said:
Orange,

One of the best examples I've seen of the difference in cinematic lighting and 'other' lighting is the television comedy '30 Rock'. I'm not saying it is a great example of cinematography (maybe it is, I'm no expert). But they normally shoot a 1 camera show. They once did a live show with multiple cameras and the look was dramatically different. It looked terrible. So there were the same sets, the same actors, the same show, but an entirely different look. If you get a chance, watch the live show and compare it to any other episode. You will see a dramatic difference, especially the scenes in Jack's office. The main differences are:

Exposure - the live show was bright. The one camera show has a much more muted exposure (the same as you see in the examples you provided). This adds a certain dramatic effect. In looks like a painting, not a snapshot.

Lighting - a live multi-camera show usually has lots of light aimed everywhere. A single camera show or film sets lights are used to sculpt a picture with shadows and highlights. You see this the first 3 examples you've posted. Look at the subtle/soft light of the first shot. Imagine that if it was lit like a cooking show. The drama goes away. The second and third shot also have a subdued exposure. But they also have a variety of light and shadow in the foreground and background. This is how you paint a scene. Once again, image that any of those were shot with a bright, flat light or hard sources of light throughout the scene. The drama goes away and we are on the set of a cooking show.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that the live show was 60p, while the one-camera version was 30p (or 30 fps film). Makes a huge difference as well.

Which is a good point; just as many people commented on how cheap the HFR in the Hobbit movies made things look, Orangeday may also have been sensing the difference between frame rates as well. A lot of people chalk that difference up to lighting, but it's not.
 
Orangeday said:
I have to confess, that I work with cheap energy-saving and led lamps. I'm a student and I dont study something with movies, so my budget is very limited. if I wouldnt use the cheap stuff, I would suffer because I couldnt do anything. but right now I mainly want to learn how to set light, even if the light quality is not in a professional spectrum.
I got some light umberellas, 2 5in1 photography reflectors and three 40x40cm softboxes. overall I got 3 energy laving lamps and 2 led lights (YONGNUO YN-160, soon I will buy a YONGNUO YN-600).


thanks, especially about the 4. part!
yes, I should really start to practice more.
the last 3 months I did 2 short movies, I hope that I can finish these the next days and show it here in the forum to get some advice.
right now I have a big problem to find actors, I hope that when I have a good short movie, it will be easier.
Click to expand...

Definitely check out those videos DPStewart suggested. I think you can get good results with your lights. That umbrella will provide a big soft source. You don't need the most expensive lights to begin to get good results. Practice by setting up one light and see what that does. Move it around, diffuse it, bounce it, and see the results. Another thing to remember is that in almost all lighting setups you'll have to learn how to flag (remove) light as well. This can be achieved in a few ways. One, as has been suggested is to move your subject further from the wall. Anytime you can get depth, it will help you. We don't want to see a shadow on the wall so cheat out, raise the element or deploy a flag, or use barndoors to control that light.

If you can't get flags you can still use material to flag light. The best material for flagging is something flat black - not shiny. See if you can get some Duvetyne. It comes in rolls and you can hang it off a stand or pin it on to things. Theaters usually have a roll or two kicking around. Help out with a set strike and ask around. See what happens if you light someone and then remove some of the light from their lap by "flagging" it. Move the "flag" in and out and notice how that effects the quality of the shadow. It's kind of like what the photographer does with the diffuser in the video.

Record your results and see how the light and shadow effect your frame. It's a lot of fun, right?
 
Barry_Green said:
Thanks for your mature response. As someone who has spent some time learning other languages, let me just say that your original question was very easy to understand while there are a couple of technical mistakes in the use of English in there, you did an excellent job of conveying your question. I konw I certainly couldn't have asked such a detailed question in any of my alternate languages anywhere near as skillfully as you did!
Click to expand...
thank you!
I definitly try to improve my english now. We've learned the basics in school but after that there is "no need" to practice it, because everything gets translated and we never get in touch with it in daily life. Beside learning vocabulary and grammar its hard to improve when there are no native english speakers around. Mostly the pure translation doesnt work because the phrases are different. Thats one of the reasons why I try to watch movies in english now and use english internet boards ;)
Especially in art and science its a big advantage to speak a good level of english or to be native english speaker.


I just tried to make a lighting setup in our guest room and I will attach a screenshot and a picture of the setup.
I think one of the main problems (beside the focus and the cable hanging in the frame) is the background. to underexpose the background by 2 stops, I cant use another light source. in a bigger room it would be easier to lighten the background by its own, but I think, for my next projects I cant use much bigger rooms.
Is there a good way to lighten the background equaly and still underexpose it?

07805 - 03.03.2015 , 21_37_54.jpg

here are some more screenshots I tried to analyse:


00216 - 20.12.2014 , 19_15_36.jpg
this shot is interesing for me, because the actor is sitting directly at the wall.
I think there must be a light really close to the wall to lighten the background. bue I think its filmed in a studio and in a normal room with a low roof its almost impossible to lighten like that. is there an alternative?



00225 - 20.12.2014 , 19_16_26.jpg
this sot is interesting for me because I noticed the light on his shoulders. I only heared from a hair light... is there a big light source over him which lightens the top of his head and his shoulders or are these seperate lights?



00261 - 20.12.2014 , 19_18_27.jpg
in this one I wonder if its usual to lighten all the actors seperatly? the shadows of the window is hard while the shadows of the noses are soft. also the faces should be in shadow if they would have used the natural light. so there must be like 50 lights or is there something I missed?



edit: sorry, I think the forum scaled the pictures down
 
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OK, you've got lights. No problem there.

Now it's time to look very closely at every single part of those 4 pictures you posted.

Your test shot above is getting soft lighting correct, but you are missing VERY important elements.

1. Lighting your background becomes MUCH easier when it is farther away from your subject. A small room like that is going to make it VERY hard to get the results you are after. Not impossible...but hard.

2. Do you see what I meant about picture #4 of the woman you posted? She looks lit about the same way as your subject right above here - but do you see what I mean about the boring background?
If your subject above was in front of a great background like the 4 pictures you posted - suddenly it would look GREAT!


I think you've got the basics of lighting your people now.
Next step is to learn how to create a good looking set, and how to light the set well.
Lighting the people (subject) is only half of it.


As for the movie stills above here:
Yes, there are probably all kinds of lighting devices above the frame. You might be very surprised by how much big and complicated lighting equipment is often used to created scenes that appear very simple.
The large room full of people - that might be a huge indoor set as big as an airplane hanger. That big window to the outside might not even be real. It might be part of the set light with lights.
Large group settings like that can often be very complicated lighting jobs - especialy getting things like you mentioned - all of the people appearing to have interesting lighting on them.
It's good to know how that is done - but don't expect to be able to copy something like that without LOTS of lighting devices, lots of space, and lots of time.


Here is a little "Behind the scenes with the lighting crew" video that shows how large and complex many lighting set-ups can be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJRDntoL1HE
 
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those lighting setups are not complex, what has worked for me is simple
I start with one light, my key light and build from there, cinematic lighting is mostly about removing light and placing shadows
 
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