Ted Ramasola
Veteran
Audio technician in a Hazardous job.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/27/showbiz/cops-crew-member-shot-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/27/showbiz/cops-crew-member-shot-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
COPS production crew killed in shootout
- Thread starter Ted Ramasola
- Start date
Andrius Simutis
Veteran
This is horrible, but I don't know if you can call it a shootout if the only people doing the shooting were the cops. The guy robbing the store had a pellet gun. The cops fired at least a dozen shots.
It still sucks, and what the hell did the robber expect to happen, and did the cops need to shoot that much, and did they overreact, and...just a shame all around.
The other thing is that Cops is actually not that dangerous a gig considering what they're filming. Only one other serious injury in 900 episodes which was from a car crash and that guy recovered and went back to work on Cops.
It still sucks, and what the hell did the robber expect to happen, and did the cops need to shoot that much, and did they overreact, and...just a shame all around.
The other thing is that Cops is actually not that dangerous a gig considering what they're filming. Only one other serious injury in 900 episodes which was from a car crash and that guy recovered and went back to work on Cops.
If you have to shoot, you shoot as much as you can till the perp is dead. That's how you live to protect and serve another day. Otherwise, you don't shoot. Someone with no gun at all can still kill you, either with their bare hands like bashing your skull against the pavement, or by taking your gun and using it to shoot you. And lastly, when you commit a felony and someone dies as a direct result of your felony you are guilty of murder even if you didn't kill the person. The guy with the pellet gun should be charged with felony murder, even though it was a police bullet that killed the camera man.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
The guy with the Pellet gun is dead.
Remember a few years ago in Times Square where every bystander that was shot was with a police bullet. Time to up the training a bit.
I have to question who's decision it was to take a film crew into a confined space with a possible armed robber. That has to go against protocol somewhere. I think someone on COPS or the Police force needs to revise their policy or is this another case of good TV is greater than peoples safety?
Andrius Simutis
Veteran
I don't want to get into a political debate or touch the second amendment button, but why is it that most first world countries don't have this problem? British and Japanese cops arrest criminals all the time without even having guns! Why do the police in the US need (or are even allowed) to roll in with armored cars, automatic weapons and stun grenades to serve search warrants? This idea that it's ok for cops to regularly use extraordinary force is a bit much for me. I'm not saying that they should send a polite invitation to a guy with a gun, but there needs to be some kind of balance here. This mentality that it's ok to level the entire block to get the one possible bad guy as long as our guys aren't in danger thing is just too much. There's been way too many instances of questionable shootings and it's incredibly rare that the police are ever deemed to have overreacted let alone held accountable.
reygun
Well-known member
Because, unlike UK and Japan...the US populace does have the 2nd Ammendment—allowing citizens to arm themselves, sometimes with "overkill" weapons such as fully automatic submachine guns. The good guys and bad guys alike are dangerously armed, and 9 year olds are able to "have fun" with an Uzi in 'Merca. The cops in the US have militarized, they say in response to this fact.
Anyone trained to fire a weapon is trained to shoot center mass. Target practice doesn't teach to shoot for extremities, and deploying a firearm is employing "deadly force." You are trained shoot to kill in law enforcement and military. Every cop who aimed at the perp, aimed to kill, emptying their weapon at that target.
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Andrius Simutis
Veteran
I said I didn't want to get into a debate, so I'm not.
My sympathy and condolences to the crew member lost, and let's be careful out there.
My sympathy and condolences to the crew member lost, and let's be careful out there.
Egg Born Son
Veteran
As an outsider looking in there's something that needs to be fixed and it's nice to see that there is a debate going on. What we see on the news makes us scratch our heads sometimes. But we've had a view each way now, let's leave it there. This is not the forum to have this debate, though I encourage those of you who feel strongly to express it in your communities.
The takeout here is that this can be a dangerous activity, filmmaking, even when you're not chasing criminals around. It is important as an individual to pay attention to potential dangers in your surroundings and for those who hold a duty of care over a crew to make efforts to keep the work environment safe.
The takeout here is that this can be a dangerous activity, filmmaking, even when you're not chasing criminals around. It is important as an individual to pay attention to potential dangers in your surroundings and for those who hold a duty of care over a crew to make efforts to keep the work environment safe.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Though I'm all for liberal weapons laws, I'm under the impression that many cops started really overreacting in the last time.
I know, it's a jungle out there, but tasering a 85 year old granny to death and stuff like this you can read several times every single day? Come on.
Back on topic: Didn't they issue body armor to the crew? IMHO that would be the least thing, if you go into something like that.
I know, it's a jungle out there, but tasering a 85 year old granny to death and stuff like this you can read several times every single day? Come on.
Back on topic: Didn't they issue body armor to the crew? IMHO that would be the least thing, if you go into something like that.
I vehemently disagree. None of that makes any sense.
In this case all that qualifies a person to be in law enforcment is knowing how to pull a trigger.
No, no and no.
If a perp doesn't have a lethal weapon, I'd like to think more than 2 cops can subdue the guy. If anyone should be trained to deal with bare hand combat, and other scenarios, it's the police.
You have a point, if you're not talking about the police.
I'd agree with next post, good TV is more important than public safety.
Shame.
Diversity. Japan is a monoculture. I'ts 99% Japanese. Almost any comparison between Japan and any other country is pointless.
What qualifies you is knowing when to pull the trigger and if you do have to pull the trigger you make sure you kill the person you are shooting at. Police are never trained to try and wound someone, no one is that good of a shot in a real life situation, that's just the movies. If you used your ideas in the police department you'd be dead and then they would try somethign else, like what they do now.
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It's one of those freak things like Steve Irwin killed by a stingray that just happened to hit him right in the heart. Anywhere else and he'd have recovered.
Andrius Simutis
Veteran
Something to consider...
The most dangerous jobs in the US:
Fishing
logging
commercial pilot
garbage collection
roofing
steel working
construction laborer
farmer
truck driver
miner
Linemen.
Notice who's not on there? Cops. Not only is law enforcement not even on the list of dangerous jobs, but most of the police deaths that do occur are from traffic accidents.
Luckily filmmaker isn't on that list either, but there are hazards even a set that doesn't involve violent criminals or other people with real guns. Let's be careful out there.
The most dangerous jobs in the US:
Fishing
logging
commercial pilot
garbage collection
roofing
steel working
construction laborer
farmer
truck driver
miner
Linemen.
Notice who's not on there? Cops. Not only is law enforcement not even on the list of dangerous jobs, but most of the police deaths that do occur are from traffic accidents.
Luckily filmmaker isn't on that list either, but there are hazards even a set that doesn't involve violent criminals or other people with real guns. Let's be careful out there.
Infantry soldier isn't on that list either. Rightly or wrongly, police forces often attract and draw heavily upon former military for recruiting, and there's likely a good deal of carryover in how to approach threat situations: at the first sign of threat, bring as much force to bear as quickly as possible to neutralize the threat. It surely puts the LEO in charge of the situation rather than waiting to see what happens and giving initiative to a real or suspected criminal. Inevitably and Unfortunately it sometimes comes with lethal side effects for the public.
Vultch
Well-known member
Law and order or justice int he UK is non existent, I have reported a guy who blatantly stole and committed fraud all with hard evidence and the police asked me to change my statement to "no crime committed". My soliciotr went nuts and contacted the police asking why.
Its not just me, ask anybody who has needed them and you will hear the cops are useless. The prisons are over flowing so the courts only imprison as a last resort, usually most bad guys walk free.
Assaults and theft are very common especially in London.
I feel a lot safer in the USA.
Its not just me, ask anybody who has needed them and you will hear the cops are useless. The prisons are over flowing so the courts only imprison as a last resort, usually most bad guys walk free.
Assaults and theft are very common especially in London.
I feel a lot safer in the USA.
Liam Hall
Veteran
If the prisons are over-flowing the police must be pretty decent...
Anyway, I don't think we should hijack this thread with political point scoring. A man died doing his job, it could have been any number of people on this board, myself included. My condolences to his family.