CoolLights stand adapters... ?

N

NeverColdCall

Well-known member
I bought a couple of Cool Lights flouros a while back and finally moved into my new office this weekend and got around to setting them up. Anyway, the stand adapters make me nervous as hell ... it seems like no matter how tight I crank everything down, the heavy light is still sort of wavering on that weird-shaped stand adapter.

Am I just being paranoid? Is this normal and perfectly safe for those stand adapters?

I'm just afraid the thing is going to come crashing down and I'll have 4 shattered flouros on my hands ... but if this is normal, let me know so I can breathe easy and start using the things :)
 
It is a little scary. I've never had anything drop, but I have had a light go from vertical to horizontal by itself due to looseness.

I don't usually use them on baby stands for this reason. It's much easier to use fixtures that mount with a lollipop (Kinos, Cool Lights, etc.) on a C-stand.
 
I spot welded the offset, adapters arms, and removed the small nuts. As far as the black, tightening knob, I too wish this connection was more secure. I like the lights themseleves. I also use them with a gobo head unless an application calls for the offset arm.
 
I purchased a 455P with the adapter and found the same thing. Like someone else said, I find it just as easy and quite a bit more secure to just use a grip head. I don't think that this is a Cool Lights-specific issue, though. I think it's just the nature of the beast. I mean, it's a bent, thin metal rod supporting a heavy fixture. It's not going to be rock solid whether it's made by Cool Lights or Kino Flo.

However, like someone also said, the light itself kicks butt.

~~Dave
 
Lights should never wobble around. Safety 1st on all sets or Attorneys might find you interesting. You might need to use C stands for these fittings if it's the knurled bent round bar. The knuckle will hold it rock solid. Just remember to sand bag the stand. Contact Cool Lights ASAP and they'll instruct you.
 
The CL-MPSA is the same type of fitting found for adapting a Kino Flo lollipop to a stand. Even the Lowel Caselite location fixture has a similar type rod fitting. The idea is to change the center of gravity of the fixture so its balanced more over the stand.

Also, the lollipop does need to be tightened well to keep its angle but this is also just an issue with this type of angle adjustment. Again we use the same type knob or ratchet handle that a Kino unit does.

We were going for the lightest fixtures around and a yoke (which is far more secure) just can't be part of that equation unless you want to add a bunch more weight back in. Plus, you can't swing the fixture horizontally or vertically with a yoke like you can with something like the lollipop.
 
The Lights are great, but the stands could use a little bit of work...I can appreciate the light weight aspect you are going for, but a few extra pounds of support will go a long way...I went to big 5 and got a set of the heaviest leg weights that had...hook them up where the legs meet the center post...this helps out loads and the weights fit in the travel cases...As far as the the hardware and tightening, i think spot welding is a great idea...a gaffer taped the teeth of some channel lock pliers and i just wrench'em down...good to go...just gotta be careful not to break the nob off...mostly just needs a 1/4 turn more than your fingers can go...
 
No it doesn't apply to studio models which have a yoke and the center of balance is directly over the stand. As I said, the idea of the CL-MPSA (and we didn't invent that idea either) is to keep the center of gravity as much over the stand as possible. The adapter is made of solid stainless steel rod so any worries about it breaking are unfounded. You simply can't get a better material than stainless steel for this kind of thing.
 
I concur regarding the safety issue with these adapters. The problem is that the nuts that are supposed to "lock" the pieces of the adapter together come loose. No way to tighten them securely, so they can slip and the fixture can rotate from horizontal to vertical (no, they won't fall off, but a light fixture that can't be locked into position is a problem). Useless and potentially unsafe on a set without modification. I used industrial cement but I will probably find a welder to spot-weld mine one of these days. That would be a permanent solution.

The concept itself is sound: to put the center of gravity of the fixture above the stand for greater stability. Kino Flo Divas use a similar idea, but they incorporate the U-shaped bend into the popcicle stick itself, avoiding the issue of parts that could come loose.

Unless you have the time/skill/desire to modify the adapters properly, save your money and just mount the popcicle stick to a grip head. Hopefully Richard will redesign the CL-MPSA to fix this flaw in future production runs.

By the way, I am very happy with the light fixtures themselves. I own a 2-bulb and 4-bulb portable non-dimmable unit, plus the 150w HMI and 300w tungsten units.
 
I agree with the statements above. I felt uneasy about using the adapter as well, as it didn't feel secure enough (wobbly/nut could become loose).

I finally purchased a C-Stand/Grip Head to use with the light, and it feels much better. I certainly would recommend it...
 
You may have "felt" uneasy, but I'm sure it's perfectly safe. Unless someone knocks the stand over, in which case the person in question is going to die regardless of the nature of the joint. Unless you have the portable version, in which case the glass lamps will break on impact with the ground regardless of whether the joint is still attached or not when it hits the ground.
 
One person likes wheat bread, another likes white. One thing you find when you go out and do something in the world is that its practically impossible to please everyone. Some will like the lollipop type angle adjustment and some won't. Some will like the stand adapter that adapts the lollipop to a stand and some won't. It's also fairly easy to criticize the work of a designer unless you go through the same progression of thoughts they went through to get to where they ended up. Many that don't like it don't know what they'd like better. Nor do they understand the issues of keeping things lightweight. The multi-axis mount is not a new idea though so if you don't like it in use in our fixture you wouldn't like our competitors versions either.

You want welded joints on the stand adapters. Next production cycle will incorporate that with other changes we've noted. Welding could have been done this time but I thought there might be some benefits to having it all detachable. We also had an early design for a grip head adapter that was offset to continue with the idea of keeping center of gravity over the stand. It would have raised the price quite a bit though to create the molds and models involved. It would have been more expensive than a normal grip head which didn't make sense.

If you just don't like the current design though, why not contribute a breakthrough idea? Something other than the obvious grip head idea. That's certainly not what I had in mind for this line. How that's more secure is hard to imagine too unless you've got lots of sand bags to counterweight your C-Stand which is what you had better be using if you're using a grip head.

We held design threads on these portable fixtures, right here on DVXuser before, and no one had a better idea than this center of gravity type adapter. I still haven't seen a better idea yet on this thread.

By the way, if you incorporate the stand adapter, rod and lollipop ball all into one continuous piece (without a lollipop stem like we have today that attaches to the stand adapter) then you have to throw away your entire stand adapter if you wear out the plastic ball. The idea of the short metal stem and ball is to make it easy to replace the lollipop ball part and not the whole assembly from one end to the other. It also gives the flexibility to use a grip head if you're so inclined. But, it seemed silly to me to throw away not only the plastic ball but also an expensive stainless steel rod and baby adapter too. Also, the Kino part that someone mentioned, which is only one of the stand adapters available from Kino, does nothing for center of gravity. The fixture ends up being in front of the stand as with a grip head. Here's a picture of it in operation.

ASSET_58955.jpg


This isn't any better than a grip head. You just eliminated the joints we have and thats all.

We still think we did the right thing and I never have the feeling that I'm going to lose my personal fixtures in pieces on the floor because I make sure the parts are screwed together. And they won't come magically unscrewed on the stand because they don't twist around by themselves. I built fixtures which I would turn to when I need light and I do like to use mine. These are a definite improvement over a Kino Flo Diva. Give me a better idea and we'll see about implementing it.

And for the record, we have not had one report of a falling fixture because of the stand adapter. There are several hundred of our portables out there now too.
 
If I did use the stand adapter, I don't think the fixture would ever fall because of that. And with the adapter, the fixture is definitely more balanced, for sure, but my only small issue is that the light takes longer to stop shaking - even with help. That's not a criticism of Richard, but rather of physics. I mean, a large, heavy object suspended from a long, thin piece of metal is going to shake a bit. That's that. I don't know how one would do to remedy this (obvioulsy, Kino Flo hasn't thought of it either), or if it even needs fixing at all. Maybe a thicker stem? I don't know. For the time being, though, the grip head works fine for me.

Also, Richard, kudos on the knob instead of ratchet style adjustment for the MAM. I finally warmed up to it and you were right.

~~Dave
 
Shaking (or oscillation may be a better term for whats happening). In order to get rid of the oscillation, you need something thats like a true extension of the light stand I think, same diameter and all. That would be quite challenging to come up with something that was lightweight and would still incorporate the adapters on each end. A bent and hollow aluminum tube comes to mind (to keep it light and low cost), about 1/2" to 5/8" in diameter but I'm not sure how to attach the adapters to it securely.

On the knob tightening, I love it too. A small minority prefer a ratchet adjustment though. I personally hated that ratchet action as it seemed time consuming and is a pain if you need to take the ball completely out of the lollipop for some reason. Thats why we thought the knob was better so the tightening action was continuous and not plagued with turn, stop, ratchet back, turn stop, ratchet back, etc.
 
Richard, thanks for the photo of the kino...it's been awhile since I've seen the diva mount.

I agree that your design is superior to the diva. It has has two distinct advantages. First, it does center the fixture over the stand which makes for greater stability. Second, it gives the user the option to use it or not, according to the needs of the setup.

My concern is not with the design itself, but with the detachable ends. The retaining hex-nuts alone are not enough to keep the ends from loosening from the threaded rod, even after tightening them down with a wrench. They don't come loose "by themselves", but normal on-set handling can cause them to come loose (such as moving a light stand with a light on it.) On the "stand end", a loose end can mean a light can be easily accidentally bumped out of proper aiming. On the "light end", e loose end can result in a fixture suddenly swinging from horizontal to vertical due to balance (like a slight tug on the power cable) or a small bumping or jarring.

To be clear, I did not say, nor mean to imply, that this issue would result in lights crashing to the floor. But a light that does not stay exactly where you locked it is a safety issue, in my opinion...if only because the grip who bumps a light walking by and it starts to spin may react AS IF it's falling over, and that reaction can cause a chain reaction. Or that loose light bumps a flag and knocks it over, etc.

Richard, I'm glad you are welding it in future production runs. That fixes it permanently. For current users, it's an easy enough fix....buy some Loctite or similar metal adhesive or find a welder to do the modification.

It's not easy to convey tone in written word, and I want Richard and everyone to understand that I am thrilled with his fixtures, which I consider innovative and unique, and well worth my investment. I would, and probably will, purchase from Richard again. My comments are not meant to be negative, just my personal opinion on an issue that, while significant, is easy enough to fix.
 
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